On June 22, 2022, Nassau Re/Imagine hosted the first annual Retiretech Forum. Nearly 100 attendees representing carriers, corporate innovators, regulators, investors, industry decision-makers, and insurtech, fintech, and retiretech startups, joined us in Hartford, CT.
Attendees traveled from across the country to make business connections, expand their networks, discuss the future of the retirement industry and challenge how the business will get done as we move forward as a society. We curated the forum as a vehicle to continue discussions that began in 2020 at a series of events we hosted entitled; “Reimagining Retirement in a Post-COVID World.” That event brought together individuals playing critical roles in redefining how individuals protect their income in retirement is rapidly changing - this is where retiretech was born.
Six-panel discussions with over 25 speakers took the stage at the Retiretech Forum, exploring sales & marketing, service & operations, product innovation, risk management, climate risk, and core advisor software. Attendees stretched their minds while challenging themselves and others to redefine how we service clients in progressive, digital ways – while keeping humans at the heart of the business. By continuing these forward-thinking conversations and inviting innovation to the core of the business, the retiretech community will evolve and provide a landscape that aids in creating partnerships for future business opportunities. Join us as we re/imagine retirement through #retiretech.
First Annual Retiretech Forum
Building the Future of Retirement
June 22, 2022
Mike Kalen, CEO, Covr Financial Technologies
Session 1: Sales & Marketing
“Starting Retirement Planning Discussions in an Increasingly Distracted World”
Retirement planning is a critical need for millions of Americans. However, it’s never been harder than it is today to start that important conversation. Call screening technology grows more sophisticated. Digital ad prices increase. Email open rates decline. Conflicting messages in the mainstream media cause doubt about the value of our core products. In addition, a growing stream of television ads threaten to create health care planning fatigue. How should the industry adapt and find more effective ways to create more individual retirement plans?What platforms will advisors and distributors need to make finding clients as efficient as possible?
Session 2: Service & Operations
“Moving Service Functions from the Call Center to the App Store”
We still primarily serve our customers in a business model defined by answering inbound phone calls, managing forms, and opening lock boxes. However, the entire world, including seniors, is rapidly shifting to an app economy. The AARP found that individuals over 50 dramatically increased their adoption of smart phones, tablets, and wearable devices during the pandemic. Today, 97% of individuals over the age of 50 report owning at least one primary digital device. How will expectations change for modes and hours of communications? Will payment expectations shift from ACH to Venmo? What opportunities does this present for better meeting the needs of retirees?
Session 3: Product Innovation
“How Will Key Product Categories Evolve over the Next Five Years?”
Product innovation has only accelerated over the last five years. FIAs and RILAs have stormed to the center of most individual carrier’s product agendas. The SECURE Act has opened the doors for intense focus of companies hoping to redefine the role of annuities and 401(k). The pension risk transfer market has exploded as administrators seek efficient solutions for longstanding obligations. New software platforms open the door for synthetic solutions that don’t require traditional carriers. Finally, will the government change the rules of Social Security and provision of financial advice in ways that will shake the bedrock of millions of plan assumptions? Where will this all lead us in the next five years?
Session 4: Risk Management
“Keeping More Connected Seniors Safe”
Prior to the pandemic, seniors proved to be the highest growing user segment for Facebook. As a result of the pandemic, they now know how to use a variety of video conference tools like Zoom and FaceTime. They search the Internet aggressively to learn more about our products than sometimes we do. How will this allow carriers to cultivate customers, agents, and advisors to serve more clients?
Session 5: Climate Risk
“Addressing Climate Change through Annuities”
Climate change promises to impact more than the property & casualty sector. The Department of Labor recently released a “Request for Information on Possible Agency Actions to Protect Life Savings and Pensions from Threats of Climate-Related Financial Risk.” Home equity comprises a major part of retirement savings, but many homes lay in regions under threat of flooding from climate change. Should this change our key retirement planning assumptions? Have we created retirement products with enough asset diversity to buffer critical sources of income from rising seas and hotter, more arid seasons? Finally, can annuities provide retirement stability for sectors of our community adversely affected by necessary changes in our economy?
Session 6: Core Advisor Software
“Reshaping the Retirement Conversation with Better Advisor Software”
Developing a thoughtful, thorough retirement plan today requires increasingly specialized expertise in needs analysis, risk assessment, product selection, Social Security optimization, health care planning, performance management, and psychology. In an increasing litigious environment, providing this service becomes increasingly difficult for practitioners. Can consistent advances in software platforms lead to more productive discussions with clients, better outcomes, and less risk for all parties?
Session 7: Venture Investing
Doug Roth, Managing Director, CI Ventures shares insights into the current state of investment trends in the insurtech and retiretech space.
SilverBills, Pierce Feuerherd
Spyglaz, Neeraja Rasmussen
Income Conductor, Sheryl O’Connor
Pecan AI, Eric Albinson
HealthView Services, Corey Dylengoski
Asset-Map, Alison Susko
The Index Standard, Laurence Black
Amazon Web Services
Angel Investor Forum
Conning & Company
CT Insurance & Financial Services
Fiduciary Insurance Services
Horton International | NA
The Index Standard
University of Hartford
Vitech Systems Group
Hartford was bustling with industry opportunities the week of our event.
We plan to bring forward this collaborative scheduling to our 2023 Retiretech Forum.
June 21, 2022 Insurance Capital Summit hosted by CT Insurance & Financial Services
More Info: https://www.insurancecapitalevent.com
June 22, 2022 Talent & Diversity – Bridging the Gap hosted by InsurTech Hartford
More info: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bridging-the-talent-gap-with-inclusion-and-diversity-tickets
June 20 – 26 Travelers Championship
More Info: https://travelerschampionship.com
Hartford Has It
More Info: https://hartford.com
00:00:01:17 - 00:00:28:01 I want to bring up Mike Kalen, who I'm going to call the father of retiretech to talk about Mike where did this word come from and why should anybody care about it? So Mike Kalen. Thank you, Paul. Everybody Well, everybody has to be the father or the mother of something, right? So you might as well be father of retired tech.
00:00:28:18 - 00:00:48:00 I also just happened to be this week father of the bride. My daughter got married on Saturday, so I haven't gotten there yet. I highly recommend it and I can share stories off to the side about what it's like having to do the father daughter dance and do the speech and all that. But it was a great weekend.
00:00:48:09 - 00:01:13:23 But now I'm focused and excited about the RETIRETECH again. So just a little bit of a background about about me. So I've been in the insurance and retirement and financial planning space now for 40 years. I was with Prudential Financial for 17 years in wealth management, insurance distribution, asset management. I started our first RIA, so I come from the industry, I'm a clue and CHF.
00:01:14:01 - 00:01:48:24 See, I was president of Hartford Life Insurance and Simsbury when there was a Hartford Life Insurance. We don't have that anymore. Hartford was purchased by Prudential, so that was a merging of my former worlds, which was another strange thing but for the last 12 years now I've been in venture capital and private equity. I was with a firm called Aqua Aquiline Capital, Carolinas, private equity and venture capital firm, entirely dedicated to financial services, insurance, asset management, banking and technology.
00:01:49:14 - 00:02:16:11 And I was there for ten years. I ran a portfolio company for them and then worked with their technology growth group, which was looking to invest in early stage insurer tech and fintech companies. They ended up making investments in a couple of companies carpet data was their first investment. I helped with that. They've invested in Reg Tech, another Connecticut company called Frist.
00:02:16:13 - 00:02:43:14 If you haven't looked at it, but Alkaline is probably now one of 15 venture firms that say they're dedicated to early stage insurer tech investing. And again, I worked for them for two years. I left them to actually run an insurer tech company so I ran a company called Cover. We're a life insurance insurer, tech company. We just did our series B fundraising rounds.
00:02:43:14 - 00:03:12:18 So I actually raised $15 million of venture capital money. So if
you're an investor out there and you've been on the circuit to raise money, I've successfully done it. Cover has raised money from City Ventures, Nike, Commerce Ventures, Aflac, Allianz, Sony. We just took an investment from Stone Point. So I'm out there pitching life insurance innovation in a real world environment.
00:03:12:18 - 00:03:36:08 Speaker 1 So we did a $15 million round it funds our operations for 18 months. And looking at the stock market and capital markets, I'm starting to think about what I need to do my next fund raise. So the world is changing very rapidly. But anyway, that's helpful. I've been on the community side with Paul helping the city of Hartford start this whole thing.
00:03:37:21 - 00:04:02:05
The state and the town and the city of Hartford have done really good work to create this community of sharing and it allows us to leverage all of our skills and our talents and come together and help each other grow. And I when I talk about cover, I say cover is the number one life insurance insurer, tech company in in the second city for insured tech.
00:04:03:02 - 00:04:29:06 So and people laugh like, what does that mean? So clearly, New York and San Francisco are the center of insurer tech and fintech. Hartford is not New York or San Francisco. But my contention is we don't need to be like we have plenty of talent. We have plenty of access, we have plenty of resources. And it's been great to be along for the ride to see what the city of Hartford has done.
00:04:29:13 - 00:04:51:08 And it's a great place to run my little company where we're housed on the fifth floor right next to reimagine, and we get to tap into all the things that Nassau has done. And we're here, which you're afraid you're going to hear from Bryan Padgette today. Another really good life, an annuity and a tech company. Their growth and our growth is very similar.
00:04:51:15 - 00:05:22:02 We're making a big difference difference. We're using digital innovation. We're using visualization to make the purchase journey and to manage policies easier. So you know, in the community, you know, sure, fi and cover are important parts of what's starting to work in the life insurance side. So it's a very long way of getting me to why retire tech when we when Aquiline was looking for investment thesis and you look at and sure.
00:05:22:02 - 00:06:02:19
Tech and sure tech is 99% auto and homeowners with like 55% auto and home 35% health and 10% life and 1% like annuities. If you then look at the world as to what the growth markets are right I don't homeowners the markets the market life insurance is flat or declining even though sure tech has made a little bit of change in that health insurance is gigantic unclear how that's going to shake out because it's very regulatory driven and the barriers to entry are hugely high.
00:06:03:00 - 00:06:40:20 People don't buy individual health. They buy group health. Group health is highly concentrated. But these firms, these 15 venture capital firms are looking for guaranteed retirement income. How the same technology for a I and robo and guaranteed income how it can apply to both the IRA market individual retirement accounts and to the four and one K market. So all this money that's coming to either auto and home health or life is looking for the annuity market to be very specific to emerge.
00:06:41:14 - 00:07:25:07 And there have been a handful a handful of successful companies that have done something with digitalization a I new interfaces, better product design a lot of it's on the 41 K side where there's been progress there's been a lot of movement in financial planning tools in money and you know money guide pro and different planning tools to optimize but the market for retire tech individual annuities helping people put annuities into their portfolio, visualizing it getting better products, creating guaranteed income streams that product and everything around it should emerge.
00:07:25:23 - 00:07:51:03 And the next three years where we're going to have volatile stock markets inflation, rising interest means a rising tide for the annuity market now now being very specific to the annuity product. But everything's going to not everything. A lot of things will favor the annuity space. And with rising interest rates, insurance companies will be able to do much more exciting things with these products.
00:07:51:16 - 00:08:22:20 And then that then gets me to what is retiretech and why is it an interesting topic? So I help Paul and the team visualize this retire tech map and kind of the segments product innovation I planning like all of those are in the retirement ecosystem. They all touch the things that I think technology can help disrupt or enable and I felt that nobody was doing it like nobody was doing it.
00:08:22:20 - 00:08:45:24 People said and sure, tech, they don't really know what it means. I mean, they kind of know what it means. And I really do think there's an emerging space for retire tech to be something. And I think all in the team have done a good job in smartly designing the map and now
creating the ecosystem for commerce, investment, collaboration to accelerate.
00:08:45:24 - 00:09:06:01 So I think in 10 minutes, Paul, that's kind of how it worked. And I, you know, I think this is a great start, right, to get 75 people together and however many are on the livestream but you know, for those of you that run companies, there is money out there. There is a lot of money in funds that have not been deployed yet.
00:09:06:01 - 00:09:26:00 Dry powder in these very large venture funds that are looking for kind of what's coming next. So I do think there's an opportunity that we can create for the innovators. I think the providers of technology and the product manufacturers are going to play a big role and I think this is a cool thing. So all right.
00:00:00:12 - 00:00:02:17 Thanks, Mike. Now, first panel.
00:00:03:16 - 00:00:04:17 Bring the panelists up.
00:00:06:05 - 00:00:06:22 Speaker 1 Great question.
00:00:07:17 - 00:00:39:17 Speaker 2 It's growing market. But how do you find him? You know, it's everybody's got to buy car insurance. Everybody's got to want to own a home, buy a home insurance. How do you find people who are thinking about retirement? So Denny Southern, who's one of our key partners at AmeriLife, runs independent distributions to be the moderator we have Barbara Ingraham from Verisk, who's been a very active participant in Harvard ecosystem and brought her a lot of energy here Jeff Petrowski from Jornaya and.
00:00:40:17 - 00:00:41:08 Speaker 1 Behind Brian I.
00:00:41:13 - 00:00:53:16 Speaker 2 Here you Bryan Padgette (Sureify), I'm sure who, who's also was an early part of our incubator and he's been doing some outstanding work. So come on up and let me give you guys this mic.
00:00:53:23 - 00:00:54:15 Speaker 1 Awesome Paper.
00:00:54:24 - 00:00:55:08 Speaker 2 Harbor.
00:00:56:05 - 00:00:56:16 Speaker 3 Thank you.
00:00:59:17 - 00:01:26:13 Speaker 2 Thanks, everybody. I think I'm on here. Can you hear me OK or do I need to use my outdoor voice here? So thanks, Paul. First of all, Mike, just great. Great to see you, sir. And being a fellow disruptor in the marketplace, I think that's a real good thing. I think disruption could almost be a key here in terms of whether you're
talking about the climate that we're in.
00:01:26:13 - 00:01:52:20 Speaker 2 And if you think about it, 2020 things started really with the pandemic, where things started changing in terms of the way you reach a client, whether it's a carrier, whether it's, you know, technology companies, whether it's an agent, however it is, you know, the way you reach clients ultimately the product have changed. And so in then then last year, it's just been accelerated.
00:01:52:20 - 00:02:21:12 Speaker 2 We've had, my goodness, since 22, we've had war, we've had a huge correction in the market. We've had rising interest rates. You got political divisiveness at an all time high you have the regulatory environment where, you know, you have politicians and you have career staffers where they're very vested in different kind of things. And all these things. You can get lost in the details and we get lost in the weeds.
00:02:21:12 - 00:02:42:16 Speaker 2 But I think it's really important to remember the one constant through all this is the demographics don't change. You know, that's the one predictable thing throughout all this. And so it's like, how do you make your way through chaos? And so how do you merge technology with the agent experience and the client experience? And so I think we've got a great panel here.
00:02:42:16 - 00:03:01:23 Speaker 2 And so if you don't mind, that's kind of where I think I think we'd start. And so I don't know how this works exactly for the people online. I would assume if they've got questions, too, to send them in and they'll be asked this should be very interactive. So I think this can be a really exciting day or it can be a very long day, and that's up to everybody here.
00:03:02:07 - 00:03:26:14 Speaker 2 So I would encourage you all to ask questions from whatever point of view we are we're at because it's a it's a it's a very, very group in terms of who the audience is here. And really, so I've had the opportunity to talk to everybody here. And, you know, we've got different experiences from the PNC side of things am from the lifestyle side, annuity side of things.
00:03:26:14 - 00:03:49:10 Speaker 2
And so I think it's it's kind of interesting to see the way things emerge here. And so, you know, data clearly is is kind of at the center of what we're doing. And so if you don't mind, one of the things that, you know, I would say I would tell you is I think clients like to cross by, but agents don't like to cross sell.
00:03:50:03 - 00:04:14:07 Speaker 2 And so, Jeff, if you don't mind, you know, I kind of like to talk to you about cross selling you know, and then as data emerges, this is kind of a wide topic. But how do you how do you manage data and the compliance concerns? And then even the regulatory concerns between maybe life and health and annuities? Yeah, that's a that's a big question.
00:04:15:03 - 00:04:46:18 Speaker 2 So I think before I answer, it's probably appropriate for me to provide a little bit of of perspective on on how I approach this market. So I lead our go to market strategy for our PNC Life and Health Business at Verisk marketing solutions which was formerly known as Jornaya until December of 2020. So we are a data and technology company that has an eye witness view of comparison shopping online and for major life purchases.
00:04:46:18 - 00:05:15:11 Speaker 2 So any big ticket item where a consumer is doing research online and then ultimately soliciting quotes and applying and then making a purchase decision, we're there with the consumer as they make their way through that journey. So we're seeing mortgages originate, we're seeing insurance quotes being requested and applications taken. We're seeing a folks go back to school, buy cars, any of those big ticket items.
00:05:15:11 - 00:05:45:03 Speaker 2 Right? So what we've seen that I think echoes everything that you just said is over the course of the last two and a half years, shopping online has been supercharged in insurance in life in particular, we're starting to see is, as Mike mentioned, we saw this incredible increase. We're talking about double digit triple digit percentage growth year over year in life insurance and shopping.
00:05:45:09 - 00:06:07:00 Speaker 2 And if you look at the MIB, they were seeing the same thing play out in application activity. As quickly as we saw that that flash happen, we also saw it dissipate and now we're seeing double digit percentage decreases in traditional life products. On the PNC side continuing to
see growth year over year on the health side, continuing to see shopping growth year over year.
00:06:07:00 - 00:06:34:19 Speaker 2 And I'd say that shopping growth can either mean that more consumers are flooding the market and are interested in taking advantage of their options online because it's easier to do so or products continue to be as confusing as they've ever been. And consumers are hungry for somebody to make it clear and easy for them to understand. And then ultimately purchase in the manner that they would like to purchase and whether that's online or still offline with an agent.
00:06:35:01 - 00:07:04:01 Speaker 2 So. So I turn to the question that you asked I think first and foremost, we're seeing more shopping than we ever have. It's important that data is is not only leveraged as a tool for agents, brokers to be able to do their jobs better, but that also that data is secured not only with regard to regulatory compliance and those bodies, but how a consumer would want you to handle their data in the first place.
00:07:04:15 - 00:07:35:10 Speaker 2 So you've got the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, you've got the California Consumer Privacy Act. All of those are good guideposts. But the one that I most often use is what do I want the companies that I do business with to do with my data? How do I want them to secure it? And obviously, that's a sort of broad way to describe it, but welcome the opportunity to to get into the details or maybe then from a consumer standpoint then, Jeff, you like technology.
00:07:35:10 - 00:08:06:21 Speaker 2 You know, how how do you leverage the technology and get the advice to the to the client, the ultimate client? And bar. Right. Even throw that out there to you to about, you know, when you're looking at behavior of what they're buying and home insurance car insurance, their buying patterns, how do you how do you correlate that to other things like Mike was talking about earlier in terms of potentially lifetime income and things like that as somebody is going through retirement to be able to fund those things.
00:08:06:21 - 00:08:37:24 Speaker 2 So, yeah, I can start. So there is more information available now than than ever about who the households and who the individuals are that we want to write and I would say knowing who you want to write and then and then better understanding who they are as they enter your your marketing funnel is is critical. It's frankly table stakes at this
00:08:38:07 - 00:09:07:05 Speaker 2 So having a system that can accept that type of data and make sense of it is is important. And then collecting that data is one thing, making sense of it and then deploying it is another. So you had mentioned lifetime income. You had mentioned things like, gee, your credit score, outstanding mortgage amount. So all of this stuff is widely available and frankly, shoppers these days are expecting that Amazon type experience.
00:09:07:05 - 00:09:30:22 Speaker 2 They're expecting us to know who they are prior to us even having a conversation with them. So I would say that that that job is as important is as it's ever been for agents to be able to understand who those consumers are before they even enter enter the funnel and then deploying that data across the value chain and throughout that customer lifecycle.
00:09:31:02 - 00:09:33:09 Speaker 2 I don't know. Barbara, do you have any differing opinions or.
00:09:33:21 - 00:10:04:15 Speaker 3 Not necessarily a different opinion? I can give a little perspective, though, on on sort of the state of the art. What is and what is not possible in terms of understanding how to refine your offering. So I think I as background, I'm more of a PR person so if you think about what is the state of the art right now when it comes to being able to target your offering to your particular consumer and I'd like to suggest that it's not as refined as you hope it is.
00:10:05:05 - 00:10:36:00 Speaker 3 First of all, the personal auto is probably the area that's most advanced in insurance in terms of digitization. There's more money thrown at it, there's more effort thrown out it than any place else. Yet how many dollars are spent in in mass market advertising? You can answer the question yourself because you can probably name all the characters for all the major commercials for all of the major auto insurance companies, personal auto companies, and you can probably sing half the jingles.
00:10:36:09 - 00:10:56:16 Speaker 3 And if you're from New Jersey, you can even sing the jingle for the one that says it doesn't have a jingle. So so with that in mind. So
that's actually though so the Holy Grail is to be able to target to exactly what you want and where the where the auto insurance industry would love to go is to be able to do it as well as your credit card company.
00:10:56:16 - 00:11:13:14 Speaker 3 Right. You get that personalized credit card offers just for you they figured out that it's something that you might say yes to. And that's actually where the auto insurance industry would love to go. And they're still figuring it out. As you can tell when you stop seeing all the when you stop seeing flow on TV, as often you'll know they've started to figure it out.
00:11:13:21 - 00:11:35:11 Speaker 3 So having said that, though, there's still a lot more that you can do than you used to be able to do. But in terms of technology, the only way to really take advantage of that is to go with modern technology, not to have you've got to have cloud, you've got to have look, have no code. You've got to be able to configure and, you know, adapt and all those good buzzwords, agile all.
00:11:35:11 - 00:12:02:19 Speaker 3 Is that the kind of stuff? If you can't do that, then the best you can do is take information, third party information, other kinds of information, bring it in on a spreadsheet into your CRM, your salesforce or whatever, and it will help you. It will be better. But if you really want to start tailoring and, and, and, and refining what it is that you're offering, either through your agents or directly to consumer, you do need to go with modern technology.
00:12:03:13 - 00:12:30:11 Speaker 2 You know, I've kind of throw that to you. Then, you know, I made a comment about clients like the Cross Live and agents don't like to cross sell. So, you know, how do you use technology maybe into leads into being able to cross sell or have cross-sell opportunities and then what challenges you have maybe from a compliance standpoint or regulatory standpoint you know in terms of sharing information excuse me.
00:12:30:11 - 00:12:54:04 Speaker 1 So I think it might be helpful to give a little background as well what we do. So I'm responsible for revenue operations for sure. If I offset and insure tech based in San Jose, California, we're getting ready to celebrate our ten year anniversary. So before we record an insurer attack, we've been out trying to to help the life in annuity
group space or retirement space with digital transformation.
00:12:54:04 - 00:13:21:19 Speaker 1 So we help them with acquisition, we help them with ongoing engagement. And frankly, we also help them service those clients once they come in. And so cross-sell. So I might take a little different angle. So sure. If I while legislation don't know we exist, we have a lot of carriers that come to us and they talk about some of these buzzwords in and for but we kind of have to step back, crawl walk on and and see what they can actually do where they are today.
00:13:21:19 - 00:13:49:17 Speaker 1 I mean, the number of people that don't have email addresses on existing customers is, is crazy so but that doesn't mean don't get started right so so what we've seen are successes that we've seen with carriers are the ones that pick a piece and go after it. So some of our you know, I'll give an example of a property and casualty carrier probably better known for the property in casualty business, but we work with their lifetime and they already have a wealth of data that's sitting there.
00:13:49:17 - 00:14:04:07 Speaker 1 They know who that customer is. And so your point is perfect or that the agent doesn't reach out to them because a lot of agents we find are very good at selling a certain product. And that's where they focus their business. And we always joke if we can just say, hey, did you know, we sell these other things?
00:14:04:11 - 00:14:21:08 Speaker 1 But the outcomes would be enormous. But so how do we do that for the agent? How do we facilitate that? Or, you know, a growing number of orphans or reassigned policies? How do we help that agent do it? And so the carriers that we've seen have success is taking that in-house data, using that to then make an offer.
00:14:21:08 - 00:14:42:04 Speaker 1 So if they're on the website, if they are on a Facebook and they know who they are, and targeting that person with an offer like, Hey, here's a $15 a month policy that you qualify for, they ask them five simple questions and then that person is bought and going through not going through a full application, not sending them something that that doesn't make any sense.
00:14:42:04 - 00:14:51:11 Speaker 1
And so we've seen a lot of success with the people that get out there because as everybody knows, the first day of trying something, you learn more than four years of planning to try something.
00:14:52:17 - 00:15:17:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, I couldn't agree more with any of those statements. The difficulty that we see a lot of in in terms of activating on a social media campaign, for starters, right. Is they can get expensive really quickly or competing in the paid search arena or even buying data leads or warm transfer phone calls. It the first 30 days always look great.
00:15:17:02 - 00:15:39:15 Speaker 2 And then as we all know, then it starts to dip and you don't know why. So again, data like ours as an example I don't I promise this won't be a pitch, but data like ours will help you separate the wheat from the chaff and again, focus in on and spend the exact same amount of money on acquiring the people that are not only good risks, but then also the people that are most likely to respond.
00:15:39:15 - 00:16:07:05 Speaker 2 So again, an example that that resonates is we work with a large PNC carrier that is not known for their life business but interested in growing it and we took their In-force file. We listened to our network of of a half a billion shopping events every month and then provided a daily feed of shopping activity back to the carrier to distribute to agents.
00:16:07:05 - 00:16:29:12 Speaker 2 So those agents have a data driven reason to call their customer, have a benefits review, have an effort a discussion that the agents loved because it wasn't just, Hey, call your book and thank them for their business and see if you can cross-sell them. They had a reason to call they had a goal to get towards, and it resulted in, you know, additional policies sold for sure.
00:16:29:12 - 00:16:51:24 Speaker 2 But it also resulted in a ton of agent satisfaction as a result. So that's an example of using data and technology. But I'll throw this out there in this environment in particular. So a little bit about us so so I run the annuity and retirement planning division in America for a distribution company with five different verticals. So this is a very timely discussion for us.
00:16:52:08 - 00:17:18:18
Speaker 2 And so in the type of environment we're in right now where you have volatile markets, you have a set, set group of demographics that are looking at retirement, that you're looking at things. How do you get your message out effectively, especially in an environment where you've had a 20% plus market correction and you've got client behavior to deal with in terms of they're unsure what to do, but they're looking for solutions.
00:17:19:02 - 00:17:42:05 Speaker 2 And as an advisor to use technology to be able to efficiently get to them and not be blocked by all the different kind of things out there, how do you be effective and yet be efficient in terms of reaching new clients I'd say sort of similar to what I just mentioned, like you've you have finite budget to work with, you have finite time to work with.
00:17:42:05 - 00:17:51:02 Speaker 2 So being really, really choosy about who you're targeting in the first place is where I've most often seen success. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:51:14 - 00:18:08:01 Speaker 1 I'll go back to one of the comments. So we see a lot of people that have that data or they know they want to go sell a certain product or they're getting interest and they're seeing leads coming off the website. So for example, we had a carrier that got ranked in a, you know, one of the publications review is a great place to buy life insurance.
00:18:08:01 - 00:18:30:15 Speaker 1 And so overnight the number of leads that came in, some like 100,000 that were going there, but their online experience, both for life and annuity was they had a quote for life it was called a telephone number. And you can imagine these people that were digital coming in at the point, it just fell off pretty hard. And these are just free leads that are coming in.
00:18:30:15 - 00:18:52:02 Speaker 1 And so relying on the the agent and you're sending them to the agent or the call center, it's important. And there's people that want to buy that way. But we find that the biggest success is when carriers go a step further and take the action for the care, the agent. And so actually send the message with that agent's, put your name on it for them.
00:18:52:02 - 00:19:28:20 Speaker 1 Now, of course, there is the who owns the customer and the my our founder Dustin kind of calls it commission conflict versus channel conflict when you start interacting. But we have that PMC carrier was talking about just give me some statistics. So when they were making a PNC offer they also now put a life offer at at the same at the point of sale and they were saying anywhere from a four to 7% placement rate on all the health policy excuse me, home policies, car policies that they're writing, they were well under half a percent before that.
00:19:28:20 - 00:19:35:03 Speaker 1 So just enormous numbers for them taking that extra step and actually sending the first communication for them.
00:19:36:10 - 00:20:09:11 Speaker 2 Well, our Barbara and I had this discussion a little bit earlier. You know, we were talking about the P&C space as far as technology goes, has been so far ahead of our of our industry. I you know, I think that's not any surprise to anybody. And so recognizing the buying behaviors of people in the P&C space, you know, how how do you integrate those two spaces in terms of data and information as it relates to buying behavior?
00:20:09:11 - 00:20:22:06 Speaker 2 And then the second part of that is the security that's around that, both from a, you know, a risk standpoint, but also a regulatory standpoint. Protect information.
00:20:22:20 - 00:20:45:09 Speaker 3 You know, so when you start the buyer experience. So let me I'll just do some background illustrations that you see. A lot of people a lot of industry techs coming to market is mygas. And they they do so because they have a great piece of technology. They understand how to interact with that customer. You know, they're probably more tech forward rather than insurance forward.
00:20:45:09 - 00:21:07:13 Speaker 3 They can do a B testing, they can change all the time, figure out where they're losing people, you know, in the process and and refine that. Right. And so so that is one of the areas that you're seeing where where there's an awful lot of well, you're seeing the insurer tax is starting to make headway is in doing a much better front end than the insurance carrier.
00:21:07:13 - 00:21:27:16 Speaker 3 But they're mygas, which means that they at some point someone's got to provide the policy. And and you have so now the the latest trend that we're seeing is that some of these companies that start off as mynas is starting to build full stack carriers and be like, why would you do that? Why would you do that? Why would you take on that surplus load?
00:21:27:21 - 00:21:51:06 Speaker 3 I would you take on that regulatory load? Why would you take on all of that expense that isn't going to once you have a carrier, just looks different. You had this high flying tech company and now you have this huge asset pool that you've got to manage completely differently. And the reason they do it is because the need to the needs, the customer can feel the difference.
00:21:51:07 - 00:22:11:16 Speaker 3 Right. So to the point you were just making, where you start off with a very high tech experience and then you end up having to make a phone call, you know, that that's kind of like the mega legacy carrier combo, right? So you've got this really great front end where you've set up an expectation that doing business with this company is going to be really special.
00:22:11:22 - 00:22:32:20 Speaker 3 And then you have, you know, a legacy claim system and a legacy back end and all this other kind of stuff. And, and you can't deliver on the promise. So so that's that, that is kind of where you see these things going. And I think that's where the opportunity is in the life space. However you were, you're asking about security.
00:22:32:20 - 00:23:02:13 Speaker 3 And so one of the things that happens, though, is you you end up with a lot of challenges because if you're a legacy carrier, you can see the opportunity for you to put this like front end out there right but but now how does the way they do business mesh with the way you're doing business? I was listening to to one guy talking he's talking about how typically in a lot of cases, that legacy carrier, they'll sit there.
00:23:02:13 - 00:23:21:15 Speaker 3 Cybersecurity will kind of be they built the data, sits there in the pool and they build the moat around it and the wall trying to keep everything out. And now you've got to let the insurer tech in to do
the thing that they do. So that you can interact together. And now, you know, what does that do to all of your security?
00:23:21:15 - 00:23:43:17 Speaker 3 It puts a whole different flavor on the way you're doing security. You know, we're we're we as a company, we have we manage many large databases, some of which are contributory. And we use FCPA databases and things of that sort. And, you know, we have even gotten to the point where we're like, we can't just do business with every startup and.
00:23:43:17 - 00:24:01:11 Speaker 3 Sure. Tech that calls us that. But, you know, you have to have certain standards before you can you can really talk to us because our data is at risk and our relationships with the people that from whom we get the data is at risk. So it's it just puts a whole level of of security concern on it that wasn't there.
00:24:02:07 - 00:24:09:15 Speaker 3 The problem with legacy also is that. So you've built it well, you know, how costly is it going to be to rebuild that? So you kind of have to make it work the way it is.
00:24:10:20 - 00:24:32:20 Speaker 1 I might add. I agree with a lot of what you said. We sit in a lot of executive boardrooms or we go through our fees with vendors and they're focused on the front end where we're a digital front end company. So so we love that. But, you know, you take simple things like service and beneficiary change and you're like, I saw this cool experience.
00:24:32:20 - 00:24:59:07 Speaker 1 I had this no code platform come in and I can build anything and it's slick. It looks great. And this is what people expect. You're absolutely right. What we found is that you know, anybody can come in and show you a really pretty website and little things, but what the carriers have that legacy issue and, you know, ten, 20, 30 different backend systems that range from your green screen to maybe something with an API if it's newer.
00:24:59:16 - 00:25:18:21 Speaker 1 And we seen carriers attack it a couple of different ways where we had one of our carriers sell their entire book of business and go greenfield all new vendors. We've had all, hey, new products are going
to be on this new digital stack and you know, we'll figure out what we're going to do back here and then we've had, you know, hey, I'll talk to me in ten years when I'm done converting everything.
00:25:18:21 - 00:25:41:10 Speaker 1 And so I don't know if we agree with all of those, but what what we've really seen is that the text that you work with or the partners that you work with and your text become such a broad topic. They have to understand your business. They have to like that's the hard work. That's what takes so long. It's, you know, getting through regulatory compliance claims that we have a 12 month contract.
00:25:41:10 - 00:26:03:15 Speaker 1 And I mean, we work with companies like Nationwide, Allstate, AMI.ca, Bright House, you know, massive carriers like yourselves. And and still it takes 12 months to get through because everybody's scared of being the next front page news. I mean, what do we have? We have our brand, we have our price and we have the product. There's not much that differentiates us there having bad press can hurt and so you know getting through is hard.
00:26:03:15 - 00:26:21:06 Speaker 1 But then what's really hard is you hear someone say, oh, this is really cool. Yeah, but how are you going to connect? How are you going to make that actually happen? And it's where we're, we're, we're in the gold rush for going and digitizing. But, you know, and a lot of people have taken action and made that first step, which is important.
00:26:21:16 - 00:26:37:23 Speaker 1 But what they what they you know, what we're seeing is over the past two to three years, a lot of people tied up in projects that have this awesome end result from a digital front end. But they're trying to figure out how to make that happen. And so, you know, I really encourage people to step back and say, don't worry, the shiny part is important.
00:26:37:23 - 00:26:47:01 Speaker 1 It's got to be a good experience. But that's that's a checkbox make sure that you can really have ask the questions about how they're going to solve the problems underneath.
00:26:47:18 - 00:27:16:09 Speaker 3 So another P&C analogy, one of the things that one of the ways you see ensure tech really thrive in the P and C side of the house is where
they have figured out how to expand the market. So a couple of different categories cyber, small business or micro-business even those are areas that where ensure techs have sort of focused on and are doing a very good job and creating and what they're doing is actually expanding the market.
00:27:16:09 - 00:27:37:11 Speaker 3 They're selling insurance to people who didn't used to buy it. So if you were so say you were the you know, you're you're a spouse of someone who is working full time. You want to start your own business at home. You paid historically, you didn't buy insurance for that, but now you might because it's a lot easier to do and it's a lot more tailored to what you want to do.
00:27:37:23 - 00:27:54:20 Speaker 3 What is but one of the reasons why that is so easy to do is because you're not bumping up against legacy systems. So if you're an insurer tech, you know, you've got this much runway, what have you got? 18 months, right? So and if it takes a year to make a decision, you know, that's that's two thirds of your recent funding around.
00:27:55:02 - 00:28:34:10 Speaker 3 So if you're an insurer tech, you know, it's a lot easier to stand something up and get that partnership if you if they don't have to if they if the legacy carrier doesn't have to let you into their legacy system in order to be able to do that. So you know so the the opportunity I think, in the life and health space is has to do with maybe a smaller premium items or selling to markets that were historically underserved or things of that sort, things where you can experiment in a greenfield space build of a fully digital throughput experience keep your costs down appropriate to the size of the premium and the offering and learn
00:28:34:10 - 00:28:38:03 Speaker 3 how to do it. And I think that that's a great opportunity.
00:28:39:00 - 00:29:09:15 Speaker 2 Well, one of the things you know, Mike, you had short comments, but you really had a lot of really good things in there. And, you know, one of the things I that I really took away from what you were talking about was the need for lifetime income and how how a cash flow type approach is beneficial but yet, you know, you've got you've got the investment world, you've got the insurance world that have kind of been at I don't want to say at odds, but they've had different viewpoints on the way to accomplish things.
00:29:09:15 - 00:29:36:01 Speaker 2 And then there's been kind of a convergence. So as that's happening and you mentioned robo advisors, too, you know, how how I'm curious how this group of maybe, you know, throw it open out here is, is when you see technology versus human interface react with the client because we want to be able to deliver products. However, client wants to consume them, whether it's online, whether it's personal, however it might be.
00:29:36:09 - 00:29:55:14 Speaker 2 But I think often times that's going to be a combination of those things. And so, you know, I've I've done things just for fund to where, you know, you buy a life insurance. I won't mention any names but you know, from an online insurance company. And where it got really interesting was when you pushed it to make sure you got human interface.
00:29:56:06 - 00:30:17:17 Speaker 2 You know, how where it got clunky in the process and it's very clunky and the process, you know. And so I'm curious from everybody what you think on that as how do you make kind of a seamless or hopefully seamless part between consuming and the buying experience where you have to have both technology and advice?
00:30:18:11 - 00:30:42:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll I'll try to say so meeting the customer where they are, right. And who is the customer like, you know, obviously the statement used to be, well, my customers, the agent and the broker, that therefore, you know, that's change. And you have to have that direct relationship with the consumer. They're demanding it. And then from an experience standpoint, you know, agents, you know, they used to maybe let us get away with a little bit more.
00:30:42:08 - 00:31:00:23 Speaker 1 And so they were OK with a clunky process because they getting paid at the end of it. Well, now they don't have to be in their expectations from a digital experience are maybe even higher sometimes because they're like, I'm not going to put that in front of this customer, especially when you're asking them to cross, sell or sell something that may be something new that they're looking at, like.
00:31:01:04 - 00:31:20:00 Speaker 1 So they haven't traditionally been selling annuities for the the
market hasn't been that great in it. Right. And so now you're saying, hey, I want you to do this. And traditionally, most of the carriers that we work with, their annuities also from a digital experience has taken the backseat that that's changed rapidly in the last four months from from the calls and interactions, the projects that we're working on.
00:31:20:22 - 00:31:45:16 Speaker 1 But that that expectation has completely changed. You've got to you it's really easy for the insurer techs to do that because they're starting from scratch, that greenfield experience. But when you're like we describe it as a highway, you know, so our tech stack allows that carrier to do everything to get on and off of that same highway and not to have, oh, I have my direct to consumer experience or I have my agent experience or my bank experiences.
00:31:45:21 - 00:32:05:11 Speaker 1 How do you merge those? Because people are going to want to start a lot of people by themself, but we still see they want to interact, they want to make sure they're making that right decision. And so partners like glia that we work with, which allows for face to face or instant calls, there's lots of those out there, but you know, how do you man them when do you send that to a person?
00:32:05:11 - 00:32:22:15 Speaker 1 How do you provide videos for cues? How do you help educate people as much as they can so that you're only getting to the, you know, the key conversations and then when you're having that conversation, making sure it's not a you've been here 30 minutes, and then I'm starting over saying, OK, what are what are you calling in for?
00:32:22:22 - 00:32:24:11 Speaker 1 What do you mean? What am I calling him for?
00:32:24:12 - 00:32:49:20 Speaker 3 So yeah, I was laughing as you were telling your story about pushing and trying to get to a human, because I immediately brought to mind a visit that I made to an insurer tech where they were. They're now a unicorn, but at the time they were not. And so the person I was visiting pointed out this table over here was like ten people sitting around a table, probably max age 26.
00:32:50:01 - 00:33:10:08 Speaker 3 And those were the licensed agents. So that when somebody had a
question, that's where they ended up with one of these. And anybody who's ever been an insurance front end, if you've been an agent or if you've been an underwriter, or you've got to talk to that customer, it's like, you know, when I was a baby broker, they wouldn't, they would let me do anything by myself.
00:33:10:08 - 00:33:30:15 Speaker 3 When I was 26. They didn't trust me with, with the clients. Right. And that's who's handling your experience. So I think the thing to think about the problem that we all have to work through in our industry is that in a lot of ways our legacy business is a utility and it is so for many, many reasons, right?
00:33:30:15 - 00:33:52:07 Speaker 3 We must protect the assets we must be there to pay the promise that we committed to the day, we committed to that promise. And we have a well-organized regulatory system that's designed to help us get to that point and, and be and you know, and the financial crisis, if everybody remembers the financial crisis, proved that we know what we're doing in that regard.
00:33:52:07 - 00:34:17:11 Speaker 3 So so there is a lot of good reasons why the utility looks like way it does. And then you're trying to put a slick front end on top of that. Where where and the people who who have been manning the utility all these years don't have that skill set. So this is a completely different skill set. We're talking about a high growth fancy tech business that we want agile and change and a B testing I these this buzzwords is I can throw out.
00:34:17:11 - 00:34:36:23 Speaker 3 But but the point is that the people who know how to do this really well don't do this. And the people who know how to do this don't do that. And we're as an industry that is the problem we need to solve. How do you bring those two things together in such a way that you can deliver the entire experience that the customers were looking for?
00:34:36:23 - 00:34:38:08 Speaker 3 And I think we're still working on that.
00:34:39:24 - 00:35:17:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. So a couple of key themes that I'm hearing all of us sort of circle back to. The first is break down silos between your your product offerings. The second is break down silos between your your
marketing and sales channels. So what we've seen, Brian, you hit the nail on the head is people love to start online. Insurance is still complex enough where I personally still talk to an agent before I make any sort of purchase decision maybe for a simplified issue or lower face amounts, things like that, I would feel a little bit more comfortable making a purchase online.
00:35:17:13 - 00:35:34:19 Speaker 2 But at the end of the day, when I was making a critical decision for my family, I still wanted to talk to an agent before I made that decision. Same goes with a number of different insurance offerings, not just life and annuities. So I'd say break down silos in your infrastructure, brief break down silos and create an omnichannel experience.
00:35:35:00 - 00:35:59:07 Speaker 2 Whether that person is talking online, carry that information over to the agent when I call in on the phone number that was given to me on the website when I abandoned Cart and decided I didn't, I needed some assistance. American Airlines, my cable provider, they all recognize me whenever I call in to to their support centers. Let's start simple and then we can build off of that together.
00:36:00:23 - 00:36:20:10 Speaker 3 So I was as I say, my my own insurer actually does do that. So if I start online and then I abandon it and call, they actually say so I see you were just on the website, how can I help you? Which is, you know, it's good, it's not creepy.
00:36:20:22 - 00:36:21:15 Speaker 1 Well, and.
00:36:21:16 - 00:37:00:05 Speaker 2 I think that that's what we're dancing around too, right? Like where that line resides of like personalization, but not not the creepy factor, right? Knowing where this person wants you to pick up with them without making them feel uncomfortable with it. Well, I think, you know, that's an interesting because there's where an opportunity is, is how do you make a seamless experience where technology and human interaction are seamless, where you're going back and forth and technology and personal advice become conversational versus I see you were looking at this.
00:37:01:17 - 00:37:24:23 Speaker 2
They're tools, right? They or never. That's the other thing that a key theme, right? There's a there's a misalignment between the agent base and the carrier align those incentives make the agent feel like you know big big Internet is not going or robo brokers are not going to take their jobs but rather make them help them do their jobs better.
00:37:25:09 - 00:37:30:23 Speaker 2 That's my personal belief. And it's maybe a little bit controversial coming from a data tech guy, but that's what I believe.
00:37:31:02 - 00:37:48:15 Speaker 1 I think I think it's the right opinion. I think if you get most of the tech people in the room that have had any experience and seen stuff would agree with you. You've you've got to you've got to meet them there. The commission conflict from reception and like pay them like we have here. Like I sell through agents.
00:37:48:15 - 00:38:05:01 Speaker 1 I don't it's like, OK, so you're saying anybody that starts online you don't care about like why would you not facilitate those in here? A small percentage may make it all the way through. That's what they want. So and maybe you don't want that. Maybe you want them to talk to agent. That's fine. At least let them start and then you offer them a good experience.
00:38:05:08 - 00:38:29:04 Speaker 2 But I just I know we're right up against launch here, and so I just, you know, I want to thank everybody. I know everybody is going to be around for the day, and you've got real expertize that I'm surrounded by up here. And I would encourage you to talk to these folks because I think, you know, there's some really great conversations to be, you know, to to go around this whole subject as it relates to these things.
00:38:29:04 - 00:38:35:10 Speaker 2 So just with that, I'd like to thank my fellow panelists and thank everybody for putting up with this at the start of the day. So thank you all.
00:38:35:12 - 00:38:35:24 Speaker 1 Thanks, Ira.
00:00:01:17 - 00:00:04:14 Speaker 1 I wanted to bring up the rest of our panelists as well.
00:00:20:18 - 00:00:44:24 Speaker 1 All right. Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to Session two for Service and Operations. I'm honored to be moderator doing this panel of very, very talented experts from many different subject areas within the topic. So really excited for the conversation. I'll give it everyone a chance to introduce themselves, but I'll go ahead and kick it off. My name is Zainab Noorali.
00:00:45:07 - 00:01:19:05 Speaker 1 I am the head of Innovation and Thought Leadership at Infosys Retirement Center of excellence. I've been in the retirement industries, particularly in the PC space, for the last 15 years. I started my career at a retirement provider where I focused a lot of my energy on the plan sponsor and participant experience. After that, I joined a very early stage startup company called Best, where we were offering a retirement platform for advisors and for small businesses to give them access to for one K plan for small business owners.
00:01:20:05 - 00:01:51:01 Speaker 1 Was head of sales and strategy there. And then I joined Deloitte for five years where I was a management consultant in the retirement and wealth space, where I had a lot of great conversations with retirement providers and helping them find solutions for their business use cases and their problems. And I just joined emphasis relatively recently. It's been less than six months, so excited to be here and talk about the importance of customer experience.
00:01:51:01 - 00:02:14:20 Speaker 1 My experience in my 15 years has been really focused on customer experience, so I know the importance of it, particularly how it's evolved over the last few years, pre-pandemic even during the pandemic. And eventually, if you'll ever get there post-pandemic to see how the needs of our stakeholders have changed. But I wanted to pass it off to Bobbie and give her introduction as well.
00:02:15:20 - 00:02:46:03 Speaker 1 Good afternoon, everyone. Bobbie Srivastav. I'm a co-founder, chief product officer of Benekiva. And what Benekiva is, is a claims and servicing platform we focused on building our solution from a beneficiary first perspective when it comes to claims and also how do we make it easy for the staff to manage and adjudicate the entire
claims value chain? And prior to Benny Kiva, Benny was my third SaaS startup.
00:02:46:20 - 00:02:56:22 Speaker 1 I work for organizations such as Pepsi Division of AIG and Center for Creative Leadership, and I'm looking forward to being part of the panel to talk about some insights.
00:02:59:13 - 00:03:39:09 Speaker 2 So we're going to share a mic. Hi. My name is Manisha Bhargava. I'm the chief customer officer of Innoveo Innovators and know code platform company, which sells for complex insurance centric business problems in a very agile and rapidly. I have a career in technology and business. I've essentially worked with clients across the globe right from Asia, Europe and North America, as well as the de la Times, South American markets in their transformation journeys.
00:03:39:15 - 00:04:22:11 Speaker 2 What I could bring to the conversations and rich understanding of what is driving change across markets I definitely see a lot of change coming in from, I think to the way insurers are transforming themselves across markets is interesting. If you look at what issues doing what the latter market is doing well, there are a bunch I think they are far larger population of people to address a lot of underserved economies as well as when you look at more mature markets, the way technology's transforming client experiences.
00:04:22:18 - 00:04:27:18 Speaker 2 I come in with that lens and happy to share some of that with you. Yeah.
00:04:28:18 - 00:04:55:04 Speaker 3 I think this Hello, my name is Pete Sanderson. I work as an account manager. Socotra is a cloud native platform that's built for a policy administration. It's a culture. We do everything from quote to claim and everything in between. Our focus is on PMC. We do some life products like simple term life products, and then we're doing some med sup as well with a large carrier.
00:04:55:04 - 00:05:18:00 Speaker 3 So in previous lives I've worked as a marketer. I helped some folks launch and sell an MGA that focused on Medicare and medicine up in Rhode Island and New England area, and that's probably where I'm coming in on this panel. So I did a lot. I did. I'm the guy that sent
a ton of mail and a ton of emails and got a lot of leads in for reps.
00:05:19:00 - 00:05:25:01 Speaker 3 So we serviced a lot of people and that product got sold and is is still doing very well today.
00:05:27:08 - 00:05:53:10 Speaker 4 Hello, everyone. My name is Galya Appell. I'm senior vice president of Strategy, Innovation, at AmeriLife. It's really hard to represent innovation at a distributor where you actually have people from real innovative companies here, but we do our best. So as you know, I'm pro-life, has been on the journey of attracting money from reputable investors for for several years now.
00:05:53:10 - 00:06:23:19 Speaker 4 We just raised another fund from Gemstar which, you know, tries to bring innovation and a lot of platform plays around the country. And in my role, I oversee a lot of elements of how we call its value proposition, right? If you are a distributor and wholesaler, you basically touch every single link of the value chain from carrier to to the ammo to ammo agency agent and ultimately the consumer.
00:06:23:19 - 00:07:00:15 Speaker 4 And so we are constantly trying to reimagine sort of what the value we can bring as a platform player. It's been a very interesting time for me. I've been a matter of life for two years, and before that I spent ten years at Boston Consulting Group doing transformational consulting for financial institutions and did a lot of work in customer centric transformations, which was an interesting journey, especially talking about 2015 when I think in financial sector back then it was still a very, very weird concept.
00:07:01:01 - 00:07:35:18 Speaker 4 They were like, What do you mean customer centric? And I was like, Well, you sell mortgage in a car, loaded a credit card out of three different departments, and none of them knows that they do it, what you do in other departments. And they were like, What's the problem? So at least now we moved a bit away from that and we do talk a lot about customer journeys and agent journeys and how technology really augments it and helps to facilitate a much better and more in reach and experience for everyone in their both sales conversation, but also in services.
00:07:35:18 - 00:07:43:01 Speaker 4
So I'm very excited to share what we are thinking about at the Metro life, but also from my consulting background. Let's have a good discussion.
00:07:43:12 - 00:08:07:04 Speaker 1 Awesome. Well, let's just jump right in. Just a few years ago, I think our industry was so focused on being tech forward and innovative, particularly to engage the younger population because the seniors, they were they like their paper statements, they like going to the the call center or they like engaging with an individual face to face. But boy, has that changed.
00:08:07:11 - 00:08:32:22 Speaker 1 I'm sure many of us in this room saw this evolve, especially in the last couple of years. My family in particular right? I was for some reason, all of a sudden overnight, my entire family knew what Zoom was. It's no longer a company teleconference conferencing platform. My family was using it to be in touch during the pandemic. And they all had it downloaded on their iPads, their iPhones, their their laptops.
00:08:33:03 - 00:08:54:00 Speaker 1 All of a sudden, my mom's asking me, how do you use Venmo and Zelle? And I'm like, why do you even know what that is? So it was a really interesting shift to see the seniors starting to be a little bit more tech savvy and more engaged digitally than they were before, and they were almost forced by it, and they adopted it just as seamlessly as the younger population.
00:08:54:00 - 00:09:15:03 Speaker 1 Right it wasn't that hard for them to to pick it up and get comfortable with it. And to add to this shift, there's almost 10,000 baby boomers that are turning 65 every single day in 20, 31. In fact, the US population over the age of 65 will be 75 million, which is double what it was just 15 or 20 years ago.
00:09:15:14 - 00:09:44:01 Speaker 1 So with this generational shift and the size that's transitioning out of the workforce, it's obviously going to impact retirement providers so what I wanted to ask the panelists is now that the baby boomers are and seniors are becoming more and more comfortable with technology, how will this change how they want to engage with their service providers and how will carriers and agents need to conform to this shift I can I can go first.
00:09:44:15 - 00:10:22:15
Speaker 1 So I think like the trends that we've been seeing in the the marketplace with the with the generational, I think it's the same want and desire that any generation has, which is meet me where I'm at. Give me give me the most easiest way to complete a task. Because honestly, as a consumer, whether regardless of the age demographic, you don't really care about what the carrier internal processes when it comes to services, you don't care that they have ten to 20 different legacy systems.
00:10:22:17 - 00:11:05:10 Speaker 1 All you care about from a claim and servicing perspective is I need to file a claim. What's next, what do you need to require and how do I interact with you? Whether if I'm a senior that is still not gravitating towards digital, whether that's traditional mechanisms or whether I want to be digital first. So I think from a carrier lens in this scenario, as a service provider is how do you look at meeting your user base, where they're at and giving them all the things that we want from a consumer perspective, is how do you how do I make it easy for them to complete a task?
00:11:05:18 - 00:11:25:11 Speaker 1 How do I when I call in and we were talking about in the earlier panel, how do they know that I'm the person that's calling? How do I validate easily? How do I submit information to you without having the need to back do the same billable PDF? That doesn't really I'm going to have Nagle off the door internally.
00:11:25:11 - 00:11:45:03 Speaker 1 So it's all about the reducing the friction but it's also upbeat. It's also appreciating the user and what their desires are because we can't go digital for digital sake. It's really meeting about their needs, whether they are younger consumer, an older consumer, whether they want digital or traditional.
00:11:49:20 - 00:12:18:22 Speaker 2 So irrespective and I echo Bobbie's point about looking at the consumer in a holistic sense, even if you look at the 50 plus consumer engaging with any aspect of their lives, whether it is retirement planning, whether it is just getting groceries, whether it is engaging with their financial organizations, they've adopted digital in a big way how we work.
00:12:19:02 - 00:12:52:02 Speaker 2 So this thing is the center of it. It's not consumption, it is
servicing. And while a lot of the industry is looking at how do I get my ERP have out there, how can I start selling more, how do I enable the agent? What's going to be materialists, completing that lifecycle, delivering a state through experience across the value chain integrating with those legacies and delivering service at the heart of it, the sale will happen.
00:12:52:15 - 00:13:10:07 Speaker 2 So it's all about shifting the focus at least I believe. How can you service it at the center of the client experience of the climate client? So this moment that is going to be the the shift in thinking that we need to be thinking.
00:13:11:15 - 00:13:33:12 Speaker 3 Yeah, I think in terms of listening to you guys, I think in terms of what we used to call personas and marketing. So as you were talking, I'm like, OK, there's pure print and there's Dorris Digital or something. Like that. So you almost immediately have two different types of client that you're working for and how you service each of those is going to be different.
00:13:33:12 - 00:13:50:14 Speaker 3 Obviously, everybody wants to treat folks digitally because it's, it's in theory, easier, but at the end of the day, you're going to have to service some of those older folks the way that they're used to, which is a little bit more maybe print oriented or maybe a greater touch.
00:13:50:18 - 00:14:14:18 Speaker 2 So so it's a sorry, I don't want to take so I guess it's you know, to clarify, it's not about it has to be both. Yeah, it's not one or the either. Right? It's both. It's about how you enabling that transaction piece, how we were having the and you know, the previous and it was very interesting because I got with a lot of the cards that were spoken there.
00:14:15:00 - 00:14:21:23 Speaker 2 It's all about marrying the agent to the advisor along with the digital experience.
00:14:22:21 - 00:14:49:21 Speaker 4 So I guess my perspective here will sort of tap into what you just said because the merry life, when we think about our client, our client is primarily the agents who then serves the person who is seeking the advice or product. And the very interesting observation we
made in the last year or so when all the consumers were already mentally prepared to embrace the digital innovation, a lot of agents were not.
00:14:50:10 - 00:15:17:13 Speaker 4 And so what we observing actually is an agent community, which we all know is aging rapidly. It's sort of the average age in the industry is 56 to seven and obviously they are not necessarily on the front of the digital revolution. And for them, adoption of tools was even more complex. And part of the reason for that is which we have reflected on.
00:15:18:03 - 00:15:56:18 Speaker 4 There are actually no tools that represent independent agent viewpoint. Like there are tons of tools that sort of solve for very particular activities within their workday, but none of it that represents a full sort of blown CRM slash, you know, book of business management tool because I guess, you know, it's a little bit industry specific until, you know, companies like a Metro Life started to emerge and represent hundreds of thousands of independent agents, like there was just no representation and demand for solutions like this.
00:15:56:18 - 00:16:18:21 Speaker 4 And so we're actually living in a very interesting times where even though consumers are ready, agents very often are not. And it's really hard for them because, you know, we have interviews with agents and they say, you know, I can run my book of business with a notepad, an iPad. Why do you give me an iPad? Why do you give me, you know, all this Fs?
00:16:18:21 - 00:16:53:13 Speaker 4 Like, I don't like that it's not how I do my business. Like, you know, I drive around in my car. I don't need an iPad somewhere. They're like, so it's interesting how we need to actually influence the main channel to adopt this and educate them about how technology can positively augment their sales effectiveness and the service effectiveness. And it's interesting to see that we also have a new generation of agents, and they're probably more prominent in Medicare and financial expense.
00:16:54:03 - 00:17:25:13 Speaker 4 We're more transactional products, but they're you you see like 27 year olds go in and successfully being able to service people because they do actually embrace the technology and they do embrace, you know, meeting people on Facebook or in other social media channels. And they
understand what drip email campaign is and building personal brand on YouTube and community on Facebook means and that that actually allows them to sort of educate the consumers also about what's what's the new experience.
00:17:25:14 - 00:17:54:20 Speaker 4 Right. All of a sudden, like you can have a real digital community experience about, you know, things like Medicare. And we didn't have that two, four years ago. So it's very interesting to see. But I think we actually have quite a lot of resistance in the system that we need to overcome. And I think that one of the interesting aspects to think about is I like the narrative of simplicity and I think that we need to think about tools, be super simple for agents as well.
00:17:55:07 - 00:18:15:06 Speaker 4 And it's not degrading at all to make the the tool as simple as possible. We sometimes think, OK, if someone, you know, needs to drive a plane or like, you know, drive a car, it has to be a super complex dashboard with a lot of different, you know, tools and metrics, you know, because it's overwhelming. And we actually don't want them to be overwhelmed.
00:18:15:12 - 00:18:18:20 Speaker 4 We want them to embrace the very new experience so.
00:18:19:17 - 00:18:44:13 Speaker 1 So one comment in your spark about the agent really brought back the story about our first customer. So our first customer was a pre-need, pre-need customer, where the claimant is also the agent because it's an assigned beneficiary. And when we were building our product initially, we were we were building it, of course, into our tech. We're going to be digital, you know, digital first.
00:18:44:22 - 00:19:05:04 Speaker 1 And our the audience is the funeral home and we learned that 80% of the claims that were coming in were through taxes. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm one of those people that want to get rid of the fax machine with the office space I want to hammer down the faxes, get rid of that. But I had to quickly learn that I can't do that in order to be successful because.
00:19:05:04 - 00:19:28:00 Speaker 1 80%, in order to create that change I had to meet that agent, that claimant where they're at. So I had to accept faxes. But what we
learned through that process was if we enabled digital and traditional mechanism and showed the path of digital is a slightly little better process, you're going to get faster notification. We're going to get that readability correct.
00:19:28:14 - 00:19:42:04 Speaker 1 They're going to they're going to slowly move to more more digital avenues. But here we have to start with the persona in mind and build it backwards instead of really forcing digital.
00:19:43:13 - 00:20:01:12 Speaker 3 To the digital agent thing was interesting. I was thinking back, our our biggest question was what's my password from an agent instead? And I don't mean that that's kind of snide and all that, but it's is true. It's like the guys who we were and the folks we were working with were 56 plus somewhere in there. They did, they crushed it.
00:20:01:12 - 00:20:03:18 Speaker 3 They did a lot of work and and.
00:20:03:20 - 00:20:25:11 Speaker 4 Then you ask them in the survey, Are you a digitally savvy person? And everyone says, yes. So like and so it's interesting, like, I feel like our industry as a whole will benefit from some kind of mass collectively sponsored ethnography study or agents because we have a lot of assumptions about that community. But I think that the reality might be eye opening.
00:20:25:19 - 00:20:59:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think this shift doesn't necessarily mean we have to go 100% digital. Right? I think there is that happy medium that hybrid approach that we're talking about, where there's going to be situations like password resets and account information that IVR is in. Chat bots can completely replace humans to be able to do. But then there's going to like myself when I'm in a particular situation with whether it's a credit card company or my bank or whatever, I do want to pick up the phone and talk to somebody because I know I'm not going to find that in the effort cuz I'm not going to find the answer in the website, but I easily
00:20:59:13 - 00:21:30:01 Speaker 1 want if I'm ready to take action, then I want to go back on the online channel and take action online and be able to track where my the progress of my transaction online as well. So it's going to be very
important to find that that happy medium where it's going to be easy for the end user, whether it's the agent, the consumer to be jumping back and forth between these channels because that's that's going to be our future for the next several years until if we even go 100% digital, I don't think it will ever even make sense to go.
00:21:30:01 - 00:21:34:03 Speaker 1 You'll always need that human connection at some point in the journey.
00:21:34:17 - 00:22:05:08 Speaker 2 It finally boils down to how many I mean, from what I know, the pool of transactions, what percentage of those transactions need that human touch and what can be eliminated, thereby driving efficiency in that system and also driving adoption in the process. Including, you know, for simple transactions you do not need or face to face. And how many of our parents and grandpa started using Instagram Instacart during the pandemic?
00:22:05:24 - 00:22:34:15 Speaker 2 Right. If we look at the number of people who adopted an embrace digital channels, it kind of took out a lot of that conservatism in the in the equation during the pandemic. So we can at this juncture, start from a space of seeing digitalization has been embraced in a lot of ways. Across different spectrums of life. So there is acceptance.
00:22:34:20 - 00:22:55:02 Speaker 2 And when we start from that space and then start eliminating those you know, those anxiety moments where you do need a human touch. But beyond that, it's all about the digital experience at a transactional level. I think the way we'd imagine that will probably drive a better strategy.
00:22:55:02 - 00:23:19:17 Speaker 4 I really like what you say because what we see now research is that every customer journey right there is a moment where there is the utmost need for validation, right? And for example, for financial products, a lot is just the product selection, right? So you kind of understand what benefits you want. You understand what you're ready to pay.
00:23:20:08 - 00:23:54:15 Speaker 4 And then, you know, when you sort of in all the different comparison tools, you type all those things in and you see ten different products that kind of, you know, fit your profile. And at that point you need
someone to sort of navigate you around the choices. But ultimately, you know, typing in your needs if the intake form is intuitive enough or, you know, thinking about like this or that, like it's it, it's almost like we need to understand where the agent or advisor is absolutely necessary and which parts, you know, we can actually enable the person to complete themselves.
00:23:54:15 - 00:24:35:18 Speaker 4 And it's the same with the agent, by the way. Right? So when agent submits the business, like, you know, they also like some things they can do themselves. But at some point someone from the carrier side also needs to help them and at some point when we because we talk about services I would love to also talk a little bit about the fact that in our industry, one of the reasons why we a little bit behind, you know, PNC Wealth Management is because the product manufacturers, the carriers and I apologize, you know, being in the building of one, but they don't make it easy to automate everything related to the products because the data is
00:24:35:18 - 00:24:56:24 Speaker 4 actually not very easily accessible. And so I think that we a lot of us here you know, are struggling to also create those experiences because to power those experiences, we need, you know, policy status and try to integrate this field with policies that is from a given carrot. Not so in this one, but like, you know, just a given carrier.
00:24:56:24 - 00:25:32:13 Speaker 4 And it's probably six months of customer integration like and if you're trying to sell products from multiple carriers, you know, multiply it times carriers, times products, and then who has time for 25 years of endless integrations and so I think that we we probably also waiting for some kind of standardization of data across different policy parameters right. So that we have some kind of policy status API, you know like commission API, some something else API that we can actually channel is data in the most effective way.
00:25:33:15 - 00:25:54:04 Speaker 1 I definitely want to get into like the product feature side of things of how we can enable the digital journey but taking it back to the importance of that relationship, right where I think we can all agree in this room that especially for major financial decisions people want to talk to a financial professional before making that major decision.
00:25:54:04 - 00:26:14:14 Speaker 1 We brought it up in the last panel as well. It's very important. And I
think the underlying reason for that is trust, right? There's either a financial advisor, there's a financial professional, there's somebody within your family or your own network that you're trusting to help you make that decision. So how can we be building that trust in a digital journey?
00:26:18:06 - 00:26:41:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, I can. So, you know, we're so much focused on the claims side of the side of the house and oftentimes what we've seen for most traditional carriers is at the time of claim, they if a claimant is a family member, they may or may not be looping in the agent of the the person that's just passed away.
00:26:42:06 - 00:27:27:10 Speaker 1 And and the the battle from the field perspective is typically, you know, I want to be I've serviced this this family for so long. But at the time of when it's needed the most, how come I have not been aware and from a tech perspective, that's as simple as notification and I get the legacy landscape not trying to oversimplify that's a different topic we can talk about, but from a trust perspective at the time of claim, what we've seen in our research is if you loop in the advisor as part of the claim process and make it easy, even as easy of getting the agent the tools because in some carrier scenarios that have an
00:27:27:10 - 00:27:54:24 Speaker 1 agency pool, 50% of the claims are coming from family and other mechanisms, and 50% of the claims are coming through. The advisors and their biggest complaint to the carrier is You're making me go through the same process as somebody, as a claimant, but I'm part of your system, I'm part of your organization. And make my life easy. So it's just as simple as creating those tools and looking at that persona and building that claim journey.
00:27:54:24 - 00:28:40:06 Speaker 1 That they can serve the claimant at the time of need. And what we've seen in our research is like less than 4% of claims when they get paid, it gets retained back to the carrier. And we have a in our research, it shows that percentage gets increased. If you loop in the advisor because it's a trusted individual and it gives that care and it gives that agent the opportunity to sell more services of the carrier so it's you know, we focus so much in our industry about distribution or labs issues, but oftentimes we forget about the claim payments going out and that retention and that retention in our belief is when there's a when there's
00:28:40:06 - 00:28:41:04
Speaker 1 a human involved.
00:28:44:04 - 00:29:17:00 Speaker 2 I think the single largest way of delivering trust in a digital channel is transparency. And visibility. These are the two. And visibility and transparency from the perspective, whether it is the customer having the visibility and transparency on the offers available to them at the point of sale, the transparency and visibility of what's happening to the claim across the life lifecycle, the the availability of information.
00:29:17:00 - 00:29:46:02 Speaker 2 So the visibility and transparency for the advisor and agent in as the as they engage with the customer as well as the carrier engages with the customer. So whether it's that notification, whether it is at the point of sale, the visibility and transparency of commissions that they're earning is a part of the process. So I think if we even when we start solving for that, along with doing that, simply that builds trust more than anything else.
00:29:47:00 - 00:30:15:06 Speaker 4 I like that. And I also like the concept of, you know, how trust is and loyalty is something that sort of result of positive, consistent, positive experience. Right. And I think that connecting to the topic that was discussed on the previous panel, you know, experience sort of expectations, maintenance reality. And I think with a lot of investments in digital fronts, we create very high expectation sets and then consistently mismatch it with reality.
00:30:15:06 - 00:30:45:03 Speaker 4 And that's where sort of the the the trust gets eroded very, very quickly. And I think when we were preparing for the panel where we actually were talking that, you know, the so Kerry is now obviously try to understand how in the disintermediated space sort of create the brand recognition and loyalty. And a lot of them kind of keep forgetting that the only experience that customer actually has, it's not at the point of acquisition.
00:30:45:03 - 00:31:12:24 Speaker 4 It's a point of claim. And it doesn't matter how beautiful your brand looks like when you display it during the Super Bowl commercial, if you know, you know of someone who had to go for a deaf claim and had a horrible experience. And so it's it's very interesting to sort of think about how investments are made. And by the way, like, you know,
it's we have the same thing.
00:31:12:24 - 00:31:36:10 Speaker 4 You know, it's very easy to invest in something that generates revenue and very hard to invest in something that generates retention or satisfaction because it's very hard to, you know, spend some kind of business metrics to it. But I think now in Medicare, for example, where the retention on the policy, you know, becomes like a very, very big criteria of success for everyone involved, it kind of shifts a little bit.
00:31:36:10 - 00:31:49:02 Speaker 4 But I feel like in sort of one, lifetime purchases, like a lot of life products or annuity products, we probably struggle to put the focus on on the experience that.
00:31:51:09 - 00:32:09:20 Speaker 1 And I think there's a lot of of of technology and tools out there that can help enable this to. Right. So how do you get that human experience and technology? I don't think we'll ever be able to replace humans 100%, but we can get pretty darn close. You know, there's there's a tool that emphasizes it's called poor text.
00:32:09:20 - 00:32:34:14 Speaker 1 And I'm thinking about this because I just had a meeting about it, but they based that that tool basically nudges contact center reps or even gives the data to the chat bot to be able to pick up on on consumer sentiment. Right. So they're picking up on what phrases or what responses are getting consumers annoyed or frustrated or upset.
00:32:34:20 - 00:33:13:21 Speaker 1 That way they can continue to refine the experience to to build that connection. Right. So instead of I'm the first to do this when I get my call is received by an IVR, I immediately start going agent agent agent. I don't even want to go through that experience. But if I find that the IVR is almost talking like like a human and asking me like, you know, how can it like almost like having a conversational conversation versus a robot, I'd be a little bit more open to it and I would start building a little bit more trust in that system and allowing a robot to talk to me versus wanting to talk to humans.
00:33:13:21 - 00:33:27:06 Speaker 1 So I think there's the we're getting close to be being able to replace a human, but I don't think we'll fully be able to like like there's
going to be always that scenario or that circumstance where you're just going to be like, I need to talk to somebody.
00:33:28:01 - 00:33:54:22 Speaker 3 It's tricky because people trust people, not always technology, but now so we we when we were doing our Medicare work, we found a lot of people would come to us, you know, a few years later and ask us for financial advice and like, oh, wait a second. But that quickly turn we vetted and find a partner and we ended up kind of creating a side business on that where it was super.
00:33:55:01 - 00:34:15:23 Speaker 3 It was great. It was great for us. It was great for the customer. They had that agent that they've been working with all along. We could have probably gotten better at identifying triggers to like when certain people were more ready than not to do what they needed to do. But it was it's hard to fully replace just the connection that you have with another human being.
00:34:16:23 - 00:34:51:17 Speaker 2 So let's look at financial services as a case study. They did it. That industry is engaging with all aspects, all the you know, all age groups and delivering services, delivering products, delivering complex products digitally and it's the same consumer where they're getting an experience from a financial services organization of being including built products and you know, portfolio management digitally.
00:34:51:22 - 00:35:21:15 Speaker 2 And here is that same customer who's experiencing a consumption of life products, retirement products from life insurance or from, you know, the health care world differently. So it's not the consumer that has to adapt or is preferring advisory services. It's about how are you delivering that information and service to the customer for them to be able to consume.
00:35:22:04 - 00:35:36:01 Speaker 2 And I think we you know, we really have to start looking differently rather than trying to solve for the fact with the assumption that the customer always needs an advisor in the mix. Maybe not.
00:35:38:17 - 00:36:19:14 Speaker 1 By May, it's about meeting the customer where they're at. So in that scenario where you were talking about like the technology really enabled that that service, but if in your scenario with the robot, if
you were to say agent and if you didn't have the human it would have been lost. Right? It would have been so it's like how do you come up with meeting the consumer needs and whether that's, you know, they need an advisor or maybe they don't need an advisor, but how do you make that experience where maybe they go through a full workflow of what they need from a financial like I always think about claims, but from a claim perspective,
00:36:19:14 - 00:36:39:22 Speaker 1 if my claim payout includes, I want a portion of my proceeds to fund a different product if that workflow was clean and I don't need an adviser because I it's it's that journey. I understand it. But at any point, if I need a human to connect with, how do we facilitate? How do we orchestrate that in a seamless manner?
00:36:39:22 - 00:36:44:12 Speaker 1 How do we allow technology to be true enabler instead of a replacer.
00:36:45:06 - 00:37:17:09 Speaker 4 And fortunately, unfortunately, I mean, the answer for that is let's look at how tech companies do that. Right? And the first thing to build is the very powerful customer data platform that underpins every single interaction that they're having with the consumer. And I think that obviously in product centric environment where the policy is the unit of information, it's really hard to create a customer anchored data set that that you can then depend all sorts of metadata on and browsing data.
00:37:17:09 - 00:37:47:10 Speaker 4 And and that's I think it's an interesting thing because what we see right now in the industry right? You have on one hand a massive revolution of lead providers, and it's an industry about which we can have a whole separate conversation probably not here, but you have sort of the the, you know, personal identifiable record sellers. Then you have the whole layer of people who sell some data.
00:37:47:10 - 00:38:13:23 Speaker 4 You can append to those to those leads. Then you have everyone who will tell you, I will build a profile of of your customer. And then somewhere at the end of it, carriers need to decide how to sell to them, but they actually still don't own the customer. And I think that ultimately whoever creates that, that view, that really informed view of the consumer will eventually be the most successful in in both servicing and selling.
00:38:14:10 - 00:38:37:21 Speaker 4 And maybe just just pointing a little bit to the product innovation because we're talking about retirement like one of the interesting things that I see in this space is right now we we have a lot of concepts that sort of reinvents the retirement products to solve for a particular need. Like, for example, at the conference a couple of weeks ago, I talked to you guys from Retirement Genius.
00:38:38:07 - 00:39:13:03 Speaker 4 And what they do, they take a life insurance policy and they find people who are just about to default on their life insurance policy. And then they basically buy that policy from them with a discount. And give them money that they can put in like a trade type fund to use to pay for long term care because they figured out, OK, there are those people who like have this very expensive policy but they are so concerned about their health care costs that their life insurance policy doesn't address that they would like forego on substantial part of the payout just to be able to afford their health care bills.
00:39:13:20 - 00:39:34:14 Speaker 4 And I think for me, it was an interesting example of the fact that we, the industry sometimes think that, oh, if the person has life insurance policy, they kind of taken care of, whereas like a lot of people will benefit from constant reevaluation of their current situation and financial needs, not just like overall retirement, but also day to day.
00:39:35:01 - 00:40:01:19 Speaker 4 And I think that that creates a lot of opportunities for maybe re platforming consumer from one product to another, depending on their needs in the moment. And maybe carers can look into that because we see a lot of sort of this abandoning of the product at a time where like people put money against that for 15, 20 years, but they have to walk away because they just can't afford it for whatever reason.
00:40:02:06 - 00:40:04:22 Speaker 4 And it's interesting how the industry kind of doesn't catch that.
00:40:06:18 - 00:40:38:16 Speaker 3 You hit on a really key point that the technology cannot replace and a bias around one particular aspect and that's where this exact, like said, really good clients don't refer to their advisors as financial advisors or their advisor. And, and the way life events and, and advice as it relates to certain kind of dynamics, kids or with
grandparents or things like that, that's something that technology can't get into.
00:40:38:16 - 00:40:48:07 Speaker 3 But where the product manufacturer can get into some of that stuff is some of the dynamics of exactly what you're talking about, being able to look at other types of products.
00:40:49:15 - 00:41:19:24 Speaker 4 And I think it's just in general like thinking of I mean, we all know that the problem with Advisor engagement with retirees is that the cumulation of assets is not a particularly lucrative area for them. They like, OK, going to put you on an annuity and focus on some other. Yup. Is so hard to say. But I think that, you know, we need to figure out the regimen of treatment of the people in that stage that you know, creates new product opportunities, new discussion opportunities and just regular engagement.
00:41:20:10 - 00:41:54:14 Speaker 2 What's interesting is those are kind of problems that technology is trying to solve for. I just call upon a use case that we're delivering an issue where we are working in the embedded space. So working with the rideshare companies and the telecom companies in Malaysia and Thailand and Singapore, where we are capturing in the partner or the distributor.
00:41:54:14 - 00:42:27:15 Speaker 2 And this is a this is a in use case for a large carrier where we are capturing different life moments as a part of their life journey, using those as triggers with the AI engines, figuring out, you know, simple things that the in an e-wallet, the customer starts buying diapers. That means there's a life movement that's happening there and serving of products which are saying that the client may have a new a bone in their family.
00:42:27:15 - 00:43:04:20 Speaker 2 How do they start their, you know, the education and fund, how do they start preparing for life products? And that's the kind of innovation that's happening driven by technology, fueled by technology to be a part of that lifecycle. And those are some aspects I think as we evolve and more and more carriers start adopting these kind of use cases, we'll start seeing how advisors to us to some extent can be replaced using technology.
00:43:07:01 - 00:43:25:02
Speaker 3 You mentioned something about data and I came from the publishing industry, so that was an interesting industry in that the moment Amazon kind of came into play, they were sucking out all the data. We didn't get the data back and we didn't. We always talked about the single view of the customer and then all of a sudden we didn't have any customers.
00:43:25:05 - 00:43:42:24 Speaker 3 We were selling tons of books. Well, we didn't have any customers, and that's in order to do a lot of the things you've talked about, you still need the customer. So to make a quick comment, I wrote predominantly know Medicare, Medicaid. So often it depends on the state, but there's something more.
00:43:42:24 - 00:43:43:21 Speaker 2 Fundamental about.
00:43:43:21 - 00:43:58:19 Speaker 3 Digital transformation that the digital divide of all your customer interconnection settings, digital literacy, not all those devices. Then all you can go to that third one is, yeah, so that's where persona would come into play.
00:43:58:19 - 00:44:12:15 Speaker 4 So and about sort of the mode of delivery, I think that's something we didn't touch. I hope no one still creates anything for desktop first like.
00:44:13:09 - 00:44:40:13 Speaker 3 Yeah, this was fascinating. Thank you so much. SB Just to clarify, your point is very interesting. We found, you know, working with our advisors suddenly senior Twitter and zoom on where we supported a it was a mark you were on that one. We did a live event livestream event with one of our advisors. Suddenly, you know, 20 customers popped up.
00:44:40:13 - 00:45:00:23 Speaker 3 I mean I've never see customer you know to that point Danny there were old older than me and Iran's no and so we started talking to how do they how do they get on here and you know it turned out that they helped us with the churches you know, because a lot of these people, you know, very active in church and all the churches went online and trained them.
00:45:00:23 - 00:45:10:02 Speaker 3 So it's there's been massive, massive amount of change in this particular sector. You all we've been talking about. First of all, thank you so much for your time.
00:00:00:10 - 00:00:17:11 Speaker 1 Next stop is our product group. And unfortunately, Michelle Richter could not be here. She got sick. Hopefully she's on Zoom. Anyway, Bruno, when you come up and will be the moderator and introduce a really, really interesting panel.
00:00:18:16 - 00:00:19:09 Speaker 2 Absolutely.
00:00:27:08 - 00:00:34:23 Speaker 1 Now I have to try it on. Is it working? Well.
00:00:36:08 - 00:00:37:03 Speaker 2 I have to turn.
00:00:37:11 - 00:00:37:20 Speaker 1 And we're.
00:00:53:06 - 00:01:23:12 Speaker 2 All right. Well, thank you very much for for joining us. At the risk of stating the obvious, the demographic environment, the regulatory environment and the economic environment has been, to say the least, a roller coaster over the last few weeks, few decades, however you want to put it. And this has caused a tremendous waste for innovation within the retirement income space.
00:01:24:03 - 00:02:03:03 Speaker 2 And I'm thrilled today to be leading this discussion panel with industry experts entrepreneurs and most importantly, innovators. So to begin with, I like this. I would We have a lot of product expertise from from various segments of the of the annuity space So in terms of the of the individual annuity market, where do you see this market adding very soon and in the next few years?
00:02:03:03 - 00:02:07:13 Speaker 2 And where do you see the the innovation in in that market?
00:02:07:21 - 00:02:33:03 Speaker 3 Well, thank you for the question. And my name is Evie Mroczek, and I'm from Lincoln Financial. And as alluded to here, I work and lead the annuity product, the market research team, focus on data digital and
anything in between. But kind of getting back to your question, I think hearing from everyone here today, right, we all know that there is a lot of challenges out in front of us, but every challenge brings an opportunity.
00:02:33:21 - 00:03:00:02 Speaker 3 I think that industry over the years has proven that we can create any what some call product widget to serve the need. Right. To address investment concerns to make sure we can balance the risk that we're onboarding. So we can also provide an opportunity and the benefits that we can pay down the road. Right. But I think the true opportunity for innovation comes with the challenges we discussed today.
00:03:00:10 - 00:03:27:15 Speaker 3 It's the ability to deliver solutions that can address the needs that can become visible in these digital tools that are easily I don't want to use the word benchmark but compared. But most importantly, they are understood by the receiving end. And here the receiving end are the customers and are the advisors right? The advisors that are there to tell our story, to provide advice.
00:03:28:02 - 00:03:41:24 Speaker 3 So I think if I really think about it and bringing it back, the true opportunity really becomes in simplicity. So where I see the industry going is the push for simplicity and not over complication of the products that we sell today.
00:03:42:16 - 00:04:09:12 Speaker 2 Well, thank you And next, going with Robin, who's is SVP at Vitech in terms of pension risk transfer. I'm usually again annuities again serving lifetime income customers, but from a different dynamic. Robin, where do you see the risk transfer coming and where do you see the innovation coming in the next few years?
00:04:09:20 - 00:04:38:13 Speaker 3 Okay. So country risk transfer is more broadly a technique that's used by defined benefit pension plans to manage the risk of the plan. So there's been a lot of innovation done to help plan sponsors manage the plans. Many of them, let's say over 60% of plan sponsors state that their, their objective is, is to go to a full buyout, transfer the risk to an insurer.
00:04:38:22 - 00:05:04:17 Speaker 3 And so they have tools along the roadmap to manage it, one of which is
they can transfer all or part of their pension plan to an insurer or through a group annuity contract which preserves the guarantee or one of the innovations is the buy in contract which allows the plan sponsor to keep the the plan and match the cash flows, the investment risk and the longevity risk of the plan.
00:05:05:02 - 00:05:22:23 Speaker 3 Often that's done as a staging technique to for buyout longevity. Risk transfer market is a huge source of innovation, also primarily in UK and Europe to manage the risks to in these traditional plans which for those who have it or is just a wonderful benefit to preserve.
00:05:23:16 - 00:05:27:08 Speaker 2 On the whole. Thank you. And all right so you have.
00:05:29:19 - 00:05:51:18 Speaker 2 The Laurence is the CEO of be and founder of The Index Standard and obviously an expert within FIIs. Can you tell us a little more about the FIA market Where is it heading and where is the innovation in there or if there's too much innovation, if that's such a thing?
00:05:52:10 - 00:06:24:09 Speaker 4 Thanks, Bruno. So I guess firstly, my name is Laurence Black. I'm the founder of the Index Standard. And what we do is we provide tools to try and simplify fixed index annuities and riders. So what we do is we rate indices, we rate A's and we provide forecasts and returns. Now it's kind of funny. Everyone says our product is simple and like what we're dealing with is we're hearing these investment banks developing indices that use mean variance optimization.
00:06:24:24 - 00:06:56:15 Speaker 4 They risk control. We've got some indices that we've got long short. They've got VIX and the average financial professional just does not understand. So, you know, this industry has become incredibly complex because in these annuities, you have all these wacky, wonderful indices. And then on top of that, you've got payoffs, which sometimes we're going to give you pay off that we're going to cap you at 10% We're seeing payoffs that will give you 5% of the market's go up and we'll give you 5% of markets go down.
00:06:56:15 - 00:07:18:00 Speaker 4 And there's just so much complexity. So you know, at the index standard, what we try and do is really help guide consumers through this by helping them make these choices. And, you know, I think it was
alluded to on the previous panel that, you know, I think I assume everyone has got an iPhone, right. Or some kind of Google farm.
00:07:18:24 - 00:07:42:24 Speaker 4 Yes. It's tremendously complex. Right. But we understand the benefits. And I think the insurance industry is not great at explaining the benefits. You know, annuities still has a bad reputation, which I think is changing a bit recently and probably some of the cove. It helped that. But we need to focus on the benefits. And what I find in my in my seat is too many people are trying to explain to me how my iPhone works.
00:07:42:24 - 00:08:00:04 Speaker 4 And with all of these chips and this technology and it's like, oh, I don't get it. You know, I just need to know that I can make a call. I can look up something, and then I can go to the apps that I need. So I think that's something we should focus on to try and help convey the benefits.
00:08:00:04 - 00:08:07:23 Speaker 4 And, you know, because these products are incredibly useful and people want want them, but they just not sure how to access them or how to buy.
00:08:09:06 - 00:08:56:09 Speaker 2 Well, thank you. And I love the the iPhone analogy. There are obviously a very complex and single segment annuities, but at the end of the day, how do we use them effectively? So individual annuities, if I is insurance transfer I'll I'll save you for last, Richard, because I love your product. So, David, you have a completely different approach as far as Plangap and it's really starting at the root with with government sponsored programs such as Social Security and you take a completely different approach at offering retirees a solution based on on that.
00:08:56:09 - 00:09:00:12 Speaker 2 Can you elaborate a little more and what what is essential gap?
00:09:01:07 - 00:09:21:18 Speaker 5 Thank you, Bruno. And hopefully it helps sort of tie a little bit about what you guys talked about and plan gap at its core is a product invention company that helped create a new living benefit for the life and annuity space to address really the largest unaddressed fear in retirement planning in America. And that is what's going to happen
with Social Security.
00:09:22:07 - 00:09:58:20 Speaker 5 The dependency is massive and people are worried that it might not be there as promised and so we believe that you really can't have a guaranteed income story without talking about what's happening with Social Security and how to protect your income. Stream. And so over the past few years, we pioneered this industry. We helped build the regulatory framework and we've partnered with some of the best companies out there to bring products to markets to sort of give people a sense of power over a program that they've paid into.
00:09:59:00 - 00:10:21:24 Speaker 5 They've paid all their lives. You know, anyone in this room, you know, 100% certain they're going to get Social Security as promised. And the retirement plan, you know, maybe, maybe not. But if your answer is maybe not, then you know why we're in business. And so we think this offering, this new living benefit will expand the tent of annuity buyers.
00:10:22:02 - 00:10:43:10 Speaker 5 More people will be attracted into a conversation that's normally pretty complicated and if we can make it more relevant to the real concerns on the street, then we think we can make the experience for the advisors better. They can acquire more customers and then address that, that really large fear in America that the rules might change.
00:10:44:07 - 00:11:35:14 Speaker 2 Wonderful. So last but last and not least, Richard, we talked about annuities and various different shape and form you along with many academics and an economist, I've been a big advocate on longevity, poorly And the concept of like longevity pooling, risk pooling, this translates right now into annuities. Is there another way is there an innovative way? Is there an alternative that goes beyond that could ultimately complement annuities and offer a different a different avenue for people seeking income and people seeking seeking to decrease their their longevity risk.
00:11:36:18 - 00:12:12:16 Speaker 6 Thank you. I think the answer is yes. Only people will actually be as quick background are companies called well below where startup Retiretech. It's A B to B company are target market really is primarily asset managers and insurance companies as well. Governments and robo advisors. Anyone who's providing services, retirement income kind of services. And we talked a little bit about a defined benefit,
00:12:12:16 - 00:12:37:02 Speaker 6 So there's this issue of pension risk transfer and people don't like the risk on their books sponsors. So there's this big trend away from defined benefit into defined contribution that's been going on for many years now. And unfortunately, when that happens, we lose risk pooling, right? So the idea is now to bring risk pooling into the defined contribution space.
00:12:37:16 - 00:13:13:17 Speaker 6 And there are ways to do that. I think one way to think about it is like offering of a non insured, non-guaranteed annuity life annuity. All right. That doesn't say you're going to get exactly this much money or follow a certain index pay out, but just completely sharing all the risk. So there's no guarantee, no guarantee costs are so significantly less expensive to offer So for people who say, you know what, I'm very risk averse, I do want a guaranteed income stream, I want to know exactly how much I get most people should buy a guaranteed annuity.
00:13:13:18 - 00:13:46:04 Speaker 6 Right. For people who say, no, I want a shared lifetime income, I don't care exactly how much it's going to be every month. I'm willing to let it go up and down some in value. Then perhaps they could use something that's a risk sharing risk pooling arrangement that offers that and could be offered in, say, defined contribution plans today using the existing investments that are already offered in those plans today or through robo advisors and different things like that.
00:13:46:15 - 00:14:04:05 Speaker 2 So in terms of contrast to what's already offered, how would you contrast this with maybe you made that contrast with pay out annuities, but how would you contrast that with, let's say, variable annuities with living benefits?
00:14:05:20 - 00:14:29:13 Speaker 6 Yeah, good question. So we talked about that a little bit too. So a lot of these products are very complicated. All right. So and they all do have some kind of guarantee built in. So the idea here is you just say, let's just dispense with that right so it's similar in a way in that you could say, you know, you are going to get a lifetime income and it's going to vary with the experience of your investments.
00:14:29:13 - 00:14:51:20
Speaker 6 But we're just saying there's no no guarantee period of exactly how much you're going to get. So if you invest in a relatively conservative portfolio, you're going to get payouts that are going to vary somewhat over time. If you invest in extremely risky portfolios, you're going to get payouts that go up and down along with the experience of the the investment return.
00:14:52:17 - 00:15:00:12 Speaker 6 So it's largely about offering that kind of a thing, but with just zero guarantee zero guarantee.
00:15:00:21 - 00:15:05:03 Speaker 2 But obviously maximum payout. So it's it's it's a tradeoff.
00:15:05:03 - 00:15:08:20 Speaker 6 Maximizing the payout by reducing cost.
00:15:08:20 - 00:15:35:24 Speaker 2 Basically. Right. Because I think we all we all love guarantees from annuities. I think most of us would not be in this room if it wasn't for the benefit of guarantees. In terms of annuities. There's also a flip side that most most of the time under under appreciated annuity and that's the risk pooling, just like there is a risk pooling for every other type of insurance, car insurance, life insurance and whatnot.
00:15:35:24 - 00:16:21:21 Speaker 2 So I think that it is extremely interesting to see that we are coming out this way in terms of in terms of innovation and David, back to you. In terms of, you know, in terms of solution based on you know, based on governments issued programs or should I say government sponsored programs, are there other avenues where you can actually actually offer or kind of replicate that that that offering on Social Security, thinking about potentially Medicare or anything any any of those other other programs?
00:16:22:01 - 00:16:56:18 Speaker 5 Great question. I know I'm in the room with, I guess, The Godfather retired tech, right? Yeah. And we like to people smarter than us have said that we're creating a kind of a new category called retirement insurance. And so what we like to think about is all the income promises that were made to any one of us that sits off balance sheet pensions deferred comp, Social Security, things that are promised to
you, that sits somewhere else, that you're counting on that income or those promises to be kept.
00:16:57:12 - 00:17:30:07 Speaker 5 And we think that there's the same application can be applied to pension income, to these other sources that may or may not be there as promised. You know, the old Arthur Andersen guys know a little too well what happened to the deferred comp. It becomes an asset that creditors can go after and the retirement plans changed. And so, you know, we really just believe that people that have done what they're supposed to do kind of played by the rules as presented to them throughout their career.
00:17:30:14 - 00:17:47:16 Speaker 5 And then to have those rules change is kind of crappy and they should have the ability to buy protection or hedges against those potential broken promises. And we think that really expands the appeal of the annuity and life market.
00:17:49:07 - 00:18:16:10 Speaker 2 Wonderful. So maybe back to the more traditional annuities that the individual annuities, the pension risk transfer annuities I regression for both of you in terms of innovation, is technology the trigger for potentially new innovation, especially within the the pensioners transfer yeah.
00:18:16:20 - 00:19:00:11 Speaker 3 Sure. Oh, well, it's an enabler. So what you know, I work for VI Tech Systems Group which does the Policy Administration Systems Digital Integrated Digital Administration Systems for retirement plans for plan sponsors, insurers and benefit providers. And what you find is that the old legacy systems don't provide accurate, efficient information to the plan sponsor or the participants. So a digital platform will do all of their provides data can be grabbed in any form.
00:19:00:17 - 00:19:48:20 Speaker 3 It's provisioned. There's automatic benefit kills the plan participant will have digital self service and other layers can be added on to it to connect to it. So the product morphs to become the product features and the service experience for the participant. If I could pivot just quickly to the defined contribution market, there's I think the possibility for even more transformation in defined contribution because you need go betweens between the record keepers and the participants to grab the data, put it in the right format and feed it
to all the parties that need to have access to it for these new innovative forms of lifetime income.
00:19:48:20 - 00:19:52:08 Speaker 3 So I would expect a lot of transformation in that area.
00:19:53:21 - 00:19:57:08 Speaker 2 What about you? Any any opportunities, tech or non tech in terms.
00:19:57:08 - 00:20:19:17 Speaker 3 Of obviously Retiretech is here to stay. I want to say that it's not, but I think one of the things we have to be careful with is, as mentioned here by my fellow panelist, is that technology is not the solution or technology is the railroad that can help us get there. So we really have to think about what problems are we trying to solve for our customers and what is it that they're looking for.
00:20:19:17 - 00:20:44:22 Speaker 3 Right. We have a plethora of products, right. And already products that some out there are trying to simplify. Yet us US carriers were looking to deliver things that can really benefit the customer. So I think in all this, technology is going to keep US carriers in check, especially the retired techs out there looking at not overcomplicating our products.
00:20:44:22 - 00:21:13:09 Speaker 3 Right. I think we at times forget that what we create and why might make sense behind the closed doors is not necessarily easily digestible on the other side. So those digital interfaces that will not know where to place us will challenge us to think better and think harder. So I think technology's going to serve us well to really challenge us, to really look to what we need to deliver that's out there.
00:21:13:19 - 00:21:43:22 Speaker 3 But it also creates a way at potentially reaching the underserved markets, right? It gives us an ability to maybe reimagine how we and how we deliver our products to which we didn't have that before. Right. We now have digital ecosystems developing that have customers looking and studying products. Right. The recently I went through supporting immigrant parents on Medicare Medicaid, purchasing Medigap policy.
00:21:43:22 - 00:22:04:09
Speaker 3 Right. These are individuals that are non-English-speaking that need to figure out how to maneuver that system. Well, there is an opportunity for me sitting as an insurance carriers, they wait, wait a minute. You have individuals coming in studying Medicare type coverage that are going to have to be coming in every year to come in and review our policy.
00:22:04:09 - 00:22:25:14 Speaker 3 Maybe that's our point of entry. Right. We heard earlier that the Medicare agents are the ones that are more digital savvy. Maybe there's an opportunity for us to think simple annuities and think about introducing our products in a new way. So I think in all where I see the innovation happening is us challenging ourselves to think beyond our traditional channels.
00:22:26:01 - 00:22:53:10 Speaker 3 Of course, we have to serve those that have worked with us over the years. But also look to grow. I think all of the US sitting on the insurance carrier, we always talk about growth and sales. Obviously, our goal is to expand and be here for another hundred and 50 years and for many years to come, but we have to also challenge ourselves to identify new markets and that's the way to really survive to the future.
00:22:53:20 - 00:23:36:21 Speaker 2 I couldn't agree more. That's a really good point. I mean we've been hearing about, you know, penetrating the middle market as a challenge for everyone, for every carrier. So definitely finding those solutions. And essentially to your point, through through technology can get can help out. So switching gears again, Lawrence, you know, back on those index you mentioned or we all mentioned, the entire world is focused around ESG any is there any way that is you can make them work their way into those indices?
00:23:37:05 - 00:23:54:10 Speaker 2 Or if so, is it going to be driven by by compliance, by regulation, by consumer demand? How do you see ESG fitting in into this entire entire range of of indices operate within fixed index annuities?
00:23:55:11 - 00:24:19:18 Speaker 4 And that's there's a lot of things in that question. So I'll take it from a couple of angles. I would say, firstly, we see ESG as a theme, and I think themes are easy to sell in in the insurance space. So whether you can have a product that says, I'm going to give you a pay
off linked to the Nasdaq or to this fintech group of companies or ESG or green.
00:24:20:04 - 00:24:50:22 Speaker 4 So I think themes are actually really helpful because they're easier to convey what's happening to to the end consumer and I would say ESG has evolved a lot. You've probably seen some of the some of the bad press that a number of the large asset managers have got from claiming to be ESG compliant when perhaps they weren't. And we do a bit of work in Europe and I'd say things are evolving rapidly in Europe.
00:24:51:03 - 00:25:22:23 Speaker 4 And my sense is what's happening in Europe, ESG is is less well thought of now. Because pre the Russian invasion of Ukraine, everyone thought, let's say a defense company was not an ESG company. Now that might have changed, you might say, well, a defense company might be part of the S society. It helps keep stability. So my sense what's happening in Europe is people are moving a little bit away from ESG as a framework per say.
00:25:23:04 - 00:25:48:24 Speaker 4 It's going to become embedded and people are focusing more on what's called the sort of Paris goals, trying to they want to identify companies that are really genuinely reducing the global temperature by two to two degree centigrade. So that's what's happening there. And then sort of tying back into innovation and tech. And so some of your thoughts, you know, I agree with you that I think tech is really an enabler.
00:25:48:24 - 00:26:13:08 Speaker 4 And one thing from our space is we have a lot of clients that are in the ammo flow space and we see regulation is coming into the industry in a big way. Not this has really been an unregulated industry. And now you've seen something called rag vie come into place and you've got another regulation called 84, 24. And I see a couple of nods there.
00:26:13:08 - 00:26:32:22 Speaker 4 That's great. And you either have to demonstrate that you sold a product that was in the client's best interest. Or number two, you have to may you might even have to be a fiduciary, which is pretty scary. So I think, you know, the tools can help demonstrate that. And, you know, we have rating reports, we have full cost.
00:26:32:23 - 00:26:58:05
Speaker 4 We're one of many tools, but at least I think technology can allow you to save these reports down, whether it's mine or someone else's. You can demonstrate that you how you got to that solution for a client that we actually considered various products we had. We were able to evaluate them. We could look at the quality. You know, we chose three demonstrate, save that down and we gave the client this final one.
00:26:58:05 - 00:27:13:09 Speaker 4 So I think that's going to be really, really important. And I think there was a comment earlier on the earlier panel that some people are using pens and paper. I think that's still true. But technology can reduce the errors, demonstrate compliance and really help them.
00:27:14:23 - 00:27:15:22 Speaker 2 Have something please.
00:27:16:21 - 00:27:33:24 Speaker 1 Yes you raise a good point is on your 46 end of last year introduced chief financial officer and one thing else came out of the perception of like a younger demographic me. Yeah how are you going to do.
00:27:34:13 - 00:27:53:09 Speaker 4 That it's so true so I think and it's kind of it's interesting you know I've been sort of crisscrossing the country in the last couple of weeks and I think you're right you have this age and then I'm kind of like on the coasts and ESG is pretty cool and then I'm in the middle of the country and it's dealt with a bit more skepticism.
00:27:53:09 - 00:27:56:10 Speaker 4 So yeah, you're right. Hello.
00:28:02:01 - 00:28:36:13 Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you. That's helpful. And Richard, obviously a very ambitious project. You have worked as a consultant for for governments, for for for privately owned companies across the world. How do you see this solution being implemented? And we see it more as a public or private, a joint venture between public and private how do you see the implementation of a of such of such an infrastructure here in the US and elsewhere in the world?
00:28:37:05 - 00:29:03:02 Speaker 6 Yeah, I think it really depends significantly on what country we're
talking about. So I'll just give you a few examples. Perhaps in some South American countries, there is no annuity market at all. Right? So a lot of these countries develop their defined contribution system decades ago, and some have mandatory contributions, right? So there's like very big pots. The baby boomers have approach to retirement.
00:29:03:02 - 00:29:31:21 Speaker 6 They're ready to start spending and there's like no good option for them to get a lifetime income because there is no annuity mark, at least in some of these countries. And so the governments are thinking, well, gee, how do we get an early market started here? Right. And how do we attract that? And in many cases, it's nearly impossible because their constitution has certain requirements for retirement income that is basically unhedged able for an insurance company.
00:29:31:22 - 00:30:02:10 Speaker 6 So so now they're thinking about, oh, here's an alternative approach right? So a lot of these governments also are moving further to the left, right? So the pension plan providers are lamenting this because their business may be going away, but the government may be able to provide this kind of a tier two kind of solution that is offering a risk pooling like nationwide.
00:30:02:11 - 00:30:42:18 Speaker 6 Right. And they're doing they're offering it so there may might be public we've done some work in Japan as well. And their insurance companies are really interested in this idea because interest rates and if you think it's been difficult here, right. So interest rates there are even lower than here. Longevity is even worse than here. So, you know, the the supply of the annuity market in many places around the world, including there, is shrinking and very difficult and so they're thinking, oh, well, here's a way that we can offer lifetime income with no capital reserve requirement.
00:30:42:21 - 00:31:07:14 Speaker 6 Right. And it can be done at pretty low expense. Right. It's all automated, basically. So there could be insurance companies in the private market that offer this you could also think about like an asset manager says, yeah, we're we love our target date funds. Right. And then a lot of them have very big franchises. They lament the fact that they can't offer really a lifetime income solution.
00:31:07:17 - 00:31:36:20 Speaker 6 Right. But they love their target date solution and they don't want to do anything to disrupt that so we can say, well, keep your target date
solution and wrap a risk fooling around it where participants perhaps optionally can opt in or not. Right. But if you opt in and say, yes, I want to share my longevity risk with others, then they are able to offer their preferred investment solution in a way that offers risk proofing.
00:31:36:20 - 00:31:57:20 Speaker 6 So the people not only getting investment returns, are also getting longevity credits or mortality credits. You prefer to call it that and pay out for the rest of their life and it could start immediately. Or, you know, people could basically choose, right. When you want your income to start perhaps 85 all right.
00:31:57:23 - 00:32:26:17 Speaker 2 Well, thank you. Now, maybe your question for the for the panel and maybe not a question more of a kind of a business case. But if we all think of ourselves as a society and I don't want to rehash all the years all of the numbers of the 10,000 people turning 65 every day and one person out of four is going to live up to age 95 or whatever it is.
00:32:27:12 - 00:32:57:12 Speaker 2 We all know that this scenario is true. If we fast forward ourselves 20 years there is going to be a major chunk of the population that's going to be very advanced in age and not every single one of them is fully equipped to survive and not most of them will have deplete their funds that's that's a societal catastrophe.
00:32:58:08 - 00:33:30:12 Speaker 2 At the same time. It's not a spectacular one. It's not a building exploding it's it's mostly going to be a slow bleed if nothing happens. Now, the question is, and I think we've touched on that every year from every single one of our panelists, but what can we do to make sure that as an industry, we we address that and we we make sure that society is ready for that.
00:33:30:12 - 00:34:02:01 Speaker 2 And we offered the right the right products, the right advice I know. Thankfully, we have you know, we have podcast like that annuity show that talk about these concepts and put in for those conferences together. But as an industry, you know, what can we do, what should we do and what type of product and advice should we should we should we bring on the forefront or at least try to bring to the forefront?
00:34:03:02 - 00:34:15:23
Speaker 2 I'm hopeful. Hopeful hopefully we'll get an answer for every single, single five of our panelists because I think it's a very common denominator here, regardless of where we're where we're coming from.
00:34:15:23 - 00:34:44:18 Speaker 3 All right. Well, maybe I'll take a stab, Will, but I will not answer that with a product. I think I would like to answer that with the open gap that's missing in education. I think what we need to do, as all of us here, regardless of where a tech company or where a carrier is, really educate, you know, the society about the risk and what does it mean and that there are solutions out there that can solve it.
00:34:44:18 - 00:35:16:23 Speaker 3 And I'm using the word here solutions carefully because it's not necessarily my carrier's product or any of the solutions here. Right. It's the solution that's required for the person on the receiving end and what they need. So if I really had to think back on how do we overcome, you know, bigger societal problems is really addressed the fundamental need of lack of understanding of the risk we're dealing with and really pointing folks on what does that mean for them and how are tools out there that are available to solve it.
00:35:16:23 - 00:35:20:20 Speaker 2 So we don't have to go in order, but please.
00:35:23:19 - 00:35:54:04 Speaker 3 Building on that, the scenario that you paint is in the future, right? Beyond the five year perspective, we're focused on today. And by that time you have to assume that most of the population is digitally native. And, you know, one of the soundbites from the Liberal Retirement Conference was planning your retirement is going to be similar to planning a vacation on Kayak, where you have the information, the tools to form a trip or series of trips.
00:35:54:08 - 00:36:30:23 Speaker 3 You could argue our aging process is a series of trips with real time updates, and there won't be one solution for all because everybody's experiences needs priorities. Family circumstances and resources are different, and they change over time. And I think that you know, if you encourage the not only the education, the access, we talked earlier today about simplicity, ease of use, portable city would be so these would be features that would be common, you know, I mean, that you'd want to see in solutions that would be provided for future generations.
00:36:32:13 - 00:36:37:03 Speaker 4 I've got to say, I feel sorry for you guys because I know what I was thinking has already been said.
00:36:37:03 - 00:36:39:17 Speaker 2 So yeah, absolutely right.
00:36:39:21 - 00:37:09:03 Speaker 4 Advocation is absolutely critical for this industry. And I think to your point, it's also about partnering with the advisors to give them the tools so that they can enable it. And I think we need to have more products. I love your solution. I think that's just what the industry needs so we can have more annuities, but also I think we need more support from the industry because like there's only one that annuity show, but we need more things like that because we have to get out the word to everyone out there.
00:37:09:03 - 00:37:17:16 Speaker 4 And there's such a negative connotation that we really have to come together and help the industry overcome that to sell more products that we can help more people.
00:37:18:04 - 00:37:43:07 Speaker 2 And that's a really good point. On annuities annuities change so many different things. It's just something that accumulates and can provide income. Some can be a neighbor and there's just a lot of you know, it's such a vague terminology, but people tend to associate and make some sort of conclusions or find common denominators very well. So I think that's a really very good point.
00:37:45:08 - 00:37:46:03 Speaker 5 You make. All right.
00:37:48:04 - 00:37:57:12 Speaker 5 You know, I came from a town, Flint, Michigan, that's I clutch water everywhere I go. That's where I grew.
00:37:58:19 - 00:37:59:10 Speaker 4 That.
00:38:02:03 - 00:38:54:00
Speaker 5 That, you know, everyone sitting around the dinner table relied on General Motors, right. To pay for the retirement plan. And I know for a lot of my friends, you know, their parents had pensions. Their parents have social security. Their parents have these other plans that were bestowed upon them for participating in this work. And I think to the point of education, I think the education needs to be self reliance and I think that is a huge opportunity for the private market where it's education based on those systems that were relied upon in the past often don't exist right now.
00:38:54:00 - 00:39:22:11 Speaker 5 I mean, I have friends I know that are like, you know, I just haven't really thought about retirement income. My parents had a pension I'd be like, well, you don't have a pension. I'm like, well, you're right. I guess, you know, and and so there's this chasm between a lot of our parents who had this infrastructure of retirement, defined benefit versus defined contribution that this generation is the first generation where they can't that rug's been pulled out.
00:39:23:13 - 00:39:50:12 Speaker 5 And there's some naivete in that there's too much faith that it's going to be OK. 20 years from now. And I'm here to kind of rattle that cage. I think that and maybe it is because I watched General Motors go bankrupt I watched family who counted upon promises, have those promises broke and then witness the carnage, really, of retirement plans because of that.
00:39:50:20 - 00:40:16:14 Speaker 5 So I know it's true and I think as an industry to be able to get out front and say, I can put you back in control, is such a powerful statement to bring kind of solid footing to a retirement plan that support annuities. The support, the structure and the ratings and the financial power of these great carriers. I think that is really the messaging opportunity.
00:40:18:11 - 00:40:19:08 Speaker 2 Last but not least.
00:40:20:05 - 00:40:38:17 Speaker 6 I don't know if I have too much else to add. I mean, I completely agree. I think Mary summarize it this way by saying I think so much depends on trust, earning the trust of our clients, which is something that's been challenging for the industry, to say the least. And I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's just a complicated problem.
00:40:38:17 - 00:41:14:23 Speaker 6 Right. And so and people aren't as learned as us. Right, in these matters. So even for an actuary it's difficult. And so how do we explain some of these products or any product to someone who's doesn't have that kind of background? But now so so you know, I think emphasizing simplicity, transparency and, and the education. Right. And making sure that I guess the other thing that in particular that we're trying to work with is this idea of fully funded.
00:41:15:03 - 00:41:35:04 Speaker 6 So your pension is fully funded. It could. Yeah, it could vary up and down over time, and it will with the investment experience and the mortality experience of the pool. But it is fully funded. Right. So there is no underfunding and hopefully that's something that's going to help earn trust in that kind of a product for sure.
00:41:35:19 - 00:41:58:14 Speaker 2 That's a really good point. And if I can answer my own question, I do believe that one part that's missing right now is income. I think, you know, if I think of my my my current role as a as a as an associate director at MS, what we look at is the financial strength of insurance companies now, what is where do we start?
00:41:59:18 - 00:42:18:00 Speaker 2 We look at a myriad of regulation and statements and actuarial opinions. But where we look at is a balance sheet. That's the number one thing we look at. And most of our answers are going to be their second thing we look at is the operating performance. You know, where is that balance sheet going to look like? So you have a balance sheet and an income statement.
00:42:18:07 - 00:42:41:16 Speaker 2 OK, if I look at my prior job as an equity analyst with dry stock prices, earnings first page on on the you know, on the report is earnings. That's the number one thing we look at page three. You look at the balance sheet because it's still, you know, still very relevant so why am I stating the obvious? You need a balance sheet in an income statement.
00:42:43:01 - 00:43:06:09 Speaker 2 But I believe that the retirees are completely ignoring the income part of it. Everyone knows what their balance sheet look like. They know what their mutual fund balance is or CDs. They're their variable
and how much they're worth, how much they have. They all have a magic. Not everyone has an magic number. How much income does that generate?
00:43:06:21 - 00:43:09:03 Speaker 2 How much income does that generate for the rest of your life?
00:43:11:05 - 00:43:27:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, no one knows. So that's the that's the important part. And that's as important as having X amount of dollars in terms of net worth, how do you generate that income? How do you generate that income for life? That's the that's the.
00:43:28:05 - 00:43:53:13 Speaker 1 There's something else perplexing just in this generation, which is the workforce and the way we look, we no longer devote our large 4050. You have to income then in the gig economy the contract the black diamond which is many decades away if you're doing it, move for one contract to another. Well.
00:43:55:06 - 00:44:26:10 Speaker 2 That's that's an extremely good point. And before there was this thought of saying well I'm going to reach I have enough to retire so I don't have to work anymore. So your point now now we're we're saying well I don't think I have enough to retire. So I just keep on working within that particular economy. And when or if I get to a point where I'm comfortable you know, what is that what is that trade off between income in in and assets?
00:44:26:24 - 00:44:47:24 Speaker 2 And again, to your point, that also brings the question of do you want to supplement your income while you're in retirement? And I think that that works out very well for for many people if you know, if you have that that capability and that ability. So, yes, all all very, very good points. Yes.
00:44:48:06 - 00:45:20:16 Speaker 1 We have this discussion earlier. But, you know, I there's a guy called that, you know, he's gerontologist, behavioral psychologist, and looking at what he thinks retirement is going to look like going forward. And millennials have a very different view than than some of the folks are boomers and just the way it looks in terms of working part time or doing things to supplement income from a lot of fulfillment standpoint as well as side of things.
00:45:20:16 - 00:45:25:09 Speaker 1 I think that's part of the whole paradigm well, what what does retirement.
00:45:26:09 - 00:45:38:03 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Absolutely. What it means, you know, not necessarily thinking the traditional way of doing things is going to be the gold standard for the next.
00:45:38:05 - 00:45:59:22 Speaker 3 Well, let me let me jump in on that as well. But I think that also brings another element of danger right? I think a lot of us or those that with that mindset are thinking that I'm going to be able to work part time. Right? I'm going to be able to do this. I can have fun and work and that will be my retirement.
00:45:59:22 - 00:46:40:12 Speaker 3 Well, what happens if you can't work? I think that's where a lot of times the element of insurance is overlooked, right? It's this idea of every single one of us tends to look at our future optimistically. Right. I think that's a human nature. We're here to look to the future, have things better. And I think that's where us as an industry, we have an opportunity to really think about, to complement in that scenario, what does this product or our offering or as an industry we can bring to the table it's that element that if you can't work, you can still enjoy that and you'll save so save a little bit now to have that safety
00:46:40:12 - 00:47:03:13 Speaker 3 tomorrow. But I, I think we all know there is another, another element that's changing the mindset of those coming in. It's that instant gratification, right? My kids me as a child during research for a paper, I had to plan accordingly so I can get on the bus and go to the library. My kids can sit down an hour before the night before and say, Oh, shoot, I need to do something.
00:47:03:13 - 00:47:28:20 Speaker 3 They Google it. They have instant information constantly. And right now, asking somebody to give away a hundred bucks, the 100 bucks, whatever that percentage is to put away in the pile for something that you might use years down the road brings another challenge. So I think that change in the mindset and the evolution of the need for instant gratification brings another challenge for us to solve.
00:47:29:09 - 00:47:47:19 Speaker 4 I mean, sort of related to your point, I think there's industry and the whole investment industry is all focused on we can help you invest better and make your money, but there's very little focus on the accumulation better tools and helping people that can do the gig economy. Or if you don't, helping people through that is going to be a big opportunity and a big challenge.
00:47:48:20 - 00:47:53:22 Speaker 2 Absolutely. And it's completely different dynamic. So yes, please, please.
00:47:54:09 - 00:48:15:18 Speaker 3 It's quite sure how how young is too young? You know, where I just you know, I products differently not start talking about education such an opportunity.
00:48:17:05 - 00:48:42:01 Speaker 5 You know the the thing that always still amazes me is the magic of compound interest. Right? I mean, and if you look at sort of the tale of the in the last ten years of a 40 year cycle or 50 year cycle and I think you know educating starting early saving and really demonstrating that is is truly unbelievable when you see that graphed out.
00:48:42:01 - 00:49:04:16 Speaker 5 So look, I've always railed against the school system. I mean, you know, I graduated from one of the top business schools, never taught me anything about mortgages or taxes or, you know, or anything like that. So so I think, you know, what happened to social economics classes, right? Like back to ten, 11, 12 budgeting money. My dad, you know, made me mow the yard at 12 years old.
00:49:04:16 - 00:49:08:01 Speaker 5 So that seems like a good age to try to make some money and understand.
00:49:08:14 - 00:49:08:23 Speaker 2 What.
00:49:09:03 - 00:49:38:22 Speaker 5 What it takes, you know, to save and allocate and then to plan. And I
think you know, creating an experience young of saving, earning and acquiring. I think that was one of the things I remember I was really young and I wanted new skis and my dad made me work for new skis, but I got the new skis and so the money was gone, but I had to save.
00:49:38:22 - 00:50:06:05 Speaker 5 I went through the exercise and then I acquired and then I knew that that was the path for me to then get new things and so I think just the simple exercise that that we don't really talk about because I think to Evan's point, the gig economy or being able to say, hey, I'm going to work when I retire, well, things might change if things there's a ton of optionality and maybe we say there's not quite as much options as you think.
00:50:06:10 - 00:50:10:21 Speaker 2 But didn't you buy your first mall owner at Malone or at 14 years old?
00:50:11:05 - 00:50:17:08 Speaker 5 Is that so? Yeah. My mom knew she was in trouble and I my 14th birthday asked for a leaf blower to leave.
00:50:17:12 - 00:50:22:09 Speaker 2 All right. Sorry, I misspoke on that. I guess 14 years old would be the.
00:50:23:19 - 00:50:51:24 Speaker 3 I guess from my perspective, I now speak of my own children, their early years. You can start the second they get that first $20 or $5 from their grandparents. Explain to them that not all of it stays take a portion aside. And you know I did that from the moment they could really understand that concept and right now any other, you know, any party or anything that happens and grandparents they are willing to share they give money.
00:50:51:24 - 00:51:12:19 Speaker 3 And with time my children just come to me and say, hey mom, let's put this in the bank. Here's the money to go to the bank. But what I did was take it a step further. I did take them to the bank. They saw the process. It's not mom taking it and putting it into my wallet. It's me driving with them physically to the bank to deliver and deposit the money.
00:51:12:19 - 00:51:43:20 Speaker 3
So it still that appetite to do this. So I think overall it's school age, right? It's getting that back early education to school and most importantly, the first job and I'll give credit to my first manager who my first paycheck, first thing he said is make sure you put whatever the company matches you max that on your forehead one K at that point coming out I wasn't really thinking much about it but you know what power of compound interest it does help.
00:51:43:20 - 00:52:06:16 Speaker 3 So I think it's this idea of identifying the moment and bringing the education early. So I think that would be a fun. And as an industry, I think we have an opportunity to do that. We have an opportunity to bring it forward and bring it to the schools and the next generation coming in. We'll know to look for it I mean.
00:52:06:24 - 00:52:43:16 Speaker 1 I think look like today. What do you think retirement actually like 20 year. The third question is do you think retirement so we're listening to you right? Or like we're, you know, we're looking at this idea of a climate my friends over there from Michigan, your dad worked for the union. Right. And he had this pension. My son was like, what what does that really look like 10,000 people I think if they retired we would've like them in the way we're talking like 20 years from now.
00:52:44:03 - 00:52:50:24 Speaker 1 What would that look like? Because we're talking about this big organization, right? The ability to keep working. So we just do things together.
00:52:53:10 - 00:53:04:18 Speaker 1 Is there really retirement that you can find just because we just work so miserable.
00:53:06:18 - 00:53:42:14 Speaker 5 So this could be my my programing, but I think it's about options, freedom, having options to do whatever it is that you just described in so many people in our retirement today. And it's only trended trending worse. The people have less and less options, so they dread retirement age because they've been told that retirement age means I'm no longer dependent on a job or I don't have to wake up instead in traffic or do something that maybe they don't love to do.
00:53:43:03 - 00:54:06:12 Speaker 5 And so maybe retirement needs to be defined to a period in your life
when you can do what you love to do. And if that's work, great. If that's golf, every day, great. But you need to have the financial resources to execute on that regardless of today, ten years, 50 years from now, because no one's going to hand out.
00:54:06:24 - 00:54:28:03 Speaker 5 Unfortunately, in my opinion, there's not going to be that infrastructure to hand out tickets to go play in whatever arena you want to play in this retirement world, you're going to have to supply your own tickets. And so if you want to talk about what it really means, in my opinion, it means I can make the rules. I have options to do what I love to do.
00:54:28:14 - 00:54:31:15 Speaker 5 So I think that might hold the test of time.
00:54:32:03 - 00:54:39:19 Speaker 3 We know we are going to actually go to break, but this is the kind of interaction that we're looking for today. So thank you, Bruno. Thank you.
00:00:06:08 - 00:00:32:26 Speaker 1 And as we find our seats and find other beverages, I just want to say thanks to everybody who is attending on Zoom. We see you so shout out to Novo SC to Memorial Asset Protection Plan, Engage Retirement Tax, Northwestern Mutual Longevity Funds Siena Insurance, Silver Bills, and we have a few individuals as well. So thank you all for being there with us on Zoom.
00:00:33:02 - 00:00:44:02 Speaker 1 Please send in any questions that you may have. We're happy to answer them and engage with you in that way. And without further ado, I will start this session off by introducing our moderator, John Thomson.
00:00:47:00 - 00:00:51:03 Speaker 2 Good afternoon. This may be the smallest panel of the day.
00:00:54:01 - 00:00:55:13 Speaker 3 You're calling us short. I think that.
00:00:57:13 - 00:01:24:12 Speaker 2 Actually actually I think it may be it may be one of the most dynamic as well. So let's let's take the optimistic view. So thank you. Good afternoon. My name is John Thomson. I am a an aging baby boomer who is I think qualified to start to talk about this field of of retirement. And what does retirement mean?
00:01:24:12 - 00:01:41:29 Speaker 2 I thought one of the gentleman in the last session asked the question about what does retirement look like now? What does it look like in ten years, what it's going to look like in 20 years? You know, I don't know. I don't know what retirement looks like for me. So I think that's probably an answer. It is probably consistent with what most consumers would answer that question.
00:01:42:27 - 00:01:56:14 Speaker 2 But I think what it poses the question is it starts to get into this area of risk. So Raj and I are going to talk today about risk. So first I'm going to ask Raj to introduce himself about himself and his company yeah.
00:01:56:14 - 00:02:34:29 Speaker 3 Hi. Thanks, John. Raj Patel. I work with a company called WithSecure.
It's a cybersecurity firm. Global customers and my my roles and responsibilities are around cybersecurity, engineering, so I work with the sales team. We cover the North North America region, and we just basically help customers understand their risk profile when it comes to cybersecurity risk and how they can become compliant, protect against all the different variants out there, all the different malware and stuff.
00:02:34:29 - 00:02:35:18 Speaker 3 Like that. So.
00:02:35:25 - 00:02:56:10 Speaker 2 Great, great. Well, I want to begin with how my morning began this morning. Very similar. A lot of mornings, the first thing I do when I get up is find my glasses and then I find my way to the coffee pot. But then the third thing I usually do is to turn on my my mobile phone and and check the emails and so forth.
00:02:56:10 - 00:03:23:07 Speaker 2 And of course, I always scan the, you know, the weather and the, you know, the news headlines. And then I start to look at some of the feeds that I get. And one of the feeds that I get and I guess it'll show you what kind of a nerd I really am, is, is, is, is from an organization that focuses on or management and oh our meaning operating room and I've spent a lot of my career has been spent in the, in the health care field among a couple of other places.
00:03:23:07 - 00:03:52:08 Speaker 2 But one of the announcements that they made in this in this feed from this or management organization was that the average or the life expectancy of people has increased yet once again. So for me, it just was like, wow, it's a great thing happened this morning when I'm coming to this retire tech thing is that we realized that now people are going to be facing retirement and they're going to be living longer.
00:03:52:08 - 00:04:11:24 Speaker 2 And and I can remember back if I talk about my grandfather, who was happened to be a life insurance salesman, he sold life insurance based upon the fact that you needed protection for if you died prematurely and your family had obligations, you had a mortgage, you had children to educate, you needed to have life insurance to protect your family.
00:04:11:24 - 00:04:39:14 Speaker 2
For that to you know, today we'll start to look at risk and the risks are there. That's really happening is in a lot of things, it's not really so much dying too soon. The risk now, which is growing and becoming bigger, is living too long. And so with the average life expectancy increasing, it means that there's a larger focus on the insecurity associated with that longevity.
00:04:40:02 - 00:05:01:08 Speaker 2 And so in Paul's theme this morning, he kind of started talking about the seas that are associated with it. So I thought from retire tech and from area of risk management, we talk about Tuesdays the sea, another sea here where we'll talk about is is is the consumer or and the other is sort of the company or corporate perspective.
00:05:01:08 - 00:05:35:02 Speaker 2 So those are kind of the two things that I see. So the prompt that I got from Laura on on this area of risk management was to talk about the, you know, with older adults and with the pandemic, older adults, adults have become much more proficient at using technology, which which is probably true. I think people have out of necessity, have been forced to understand how they use their their mobile phones or their or their iPads or their laptops to do more things and to connect and so forth.
00:05:35:02 - 00:05:56:29 Speaker 2 And I think Paul talked, I think, about older adults who couldn't go to church or actually attending church services, being zoom or or YouTube, which they probably never turned on before. So they became very familiar with that. But with that, the question was, does that how does that change? How we as as professionals in the area of retirement?
00:05:56:29 - 00:06:19:21 Speaker 2 And I'm not sure I think we maybe we have to come up with a new word for this phase. Of life, because it's becoming a significantly longer phase and it is looking very different than it has in the past. But it's how do we help our people and help them manage their way in this latter part of their of their life, which is a significant period.
00:06:19:21 - 00:06:40:20 Speaker 2 It's not five years. It typically is becoming now a time horizons or 25 and 30, 30 years. So I don't know whether I have 25 more years. I probably should plan for having 25 more years or maybe 30 years more, but I may only have 30 minutes more. So who knows how my day is going to go from here.
00:06:41:06 - 00:07:11:23 Speaker 2 So anyway, so we'll talk about the area of risk. And I want to hearken back to the panel that was just up here because they were very articulate about some of these issues associated with, with, with retirement and, and the consumer's perspective on retirement. And one of the great quotes that is a winner and Milena from Lincoln made some very very good comments, I thought.
00:07:11:23 - 00:07:34:28 Speaker 2 And and this 11 of the points that she made was that we really need to provide solutions for consumers and and the product is not a solution. And I thought that was pretty insightful. And then I thought the idea about technology technology is not a solution. It it is a tool. And I think it I made that that distinction as well.
00:07:34:28 - 00:08:11:24 Speaker 2 And I thought that's really appropriate. But I think the area that maybe where we can start defining some a an informed way to understand the consumer, the see perspective is in the area of risk management and risk management has historically been done and talked about from a C, another C a corporate perspective. And I think in the last panel or one of the panel before one of the panelists talked about the risk management process that product providers have to go through in delivering offering and managing their products.
00:08:11:24 - 00:08:36:27 Speaker 2 Because if you have annuity contracts that are issued, you've got to make sure that your investment return as a as a as a company are sufficient enough to cover the promises you've made in the policy contracts or the annuity contracts that you've made to your policy holders. And so that's a risk management process. And it's it's a, it's a structured process that they go through.
00:08:37:16 - 00:09:05:02 Speaker 2 So I start to look at that. And then based on my experience and in the end, the risk management area on a corporate side start to draw the connection was maybe there's a parallel process for risk management from the consumer perspective. And it may be if I pull that out a little bit further, I start to look at it in terms of is that also a way for us to establish an understanding about the consumer's perspective?
00:09:05:02 - 00:09:38:14 Speaker 2
And is that what the consumer is doing is are they actually managing this basket of risks that they face in retirement? And they need they need help to do that. And looking at the prompt with respect to are they are consumers becoming more proficient with technology? Yes. But are they looking to buy with technology? You know, I we put out there that I think maybe a lot of consumers are using technology to find education and help them better manage their risks.
00:09:39:01 - 00:10:06:06 Speaker 2 So if I look at risk management and what did you find, what it is, you start to break it down and look at what is risk, what is management and what is risk management. But risk is is basically and we look at it whether we're a risk owner or a risk taker as an underwriter, where we're accepting risk is risk is basically a deviation from an expected outcome to use kind of a statistical term.
00:10:06:27 - 00:10:31:28 Speaker 2 So that's what people when you're practicing risk management, you're really thinking about what are the what are the other outcomes that are exist out there beyond what's expected and how am I preparing for that and how am I managing that or how am I financing that? And corporates and consumers manage that by buying products. A lot of insurance is a way of managing risk.
00:10:31:28 - 00:10:59:03 Speaker 2 It's a way of actually financing risk. And in insurance as a risk financing mechanism transfers risk from the risk owner to an insurance company who assumes that risk. So that's what the area of risk is. Management, on the other hand, is sort of a structured process. And we all learned in undergraduate business, school and management this plan lead organized control.
00:10:59:03 - 00:11:26:29 Speaker 2 And that's really what management is. But for risk management, it really is a structured process of how we go through it, identifying risks, evaluating and measuring risks, and then looking at ways to manage or mitigate risk, whether we retain the risk or whether we transfer the risks through insurance or whatever. That's the management piece and then we kind of have the process where we check it periodically to see how are we doing and do we need to make changes in how we do that.
00:11:27:19 - 00:11:49:27 Speaker 2 So just like corporates, individual I put forth a postulate that that's what they are doing on the consumer perspective. So I think it
would be interesting to to take a dove and look at a key risk area that all of us face, whether we look at it from a corporate side or for an individual and to enter the world of what Raj manages in the area.
00:11:49:27 - 00:12:09:25 Speaker 2 Of cyber security, which emanates in terms of managing cyber risk. So a pitch it over to him and talk a little bit about how do you see that? Is that a good example? Of risk and managing risk and how you see it impacting both the corporates and potentially, you know, extrapolating, adding to the consumer perspective?
00:12:10:01 - 00:12:49:15 Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah. So well, first thing is you guys are all representatives of companies, right? Do you know if you guys your companies have any cybersecurity risk insurance? Right. So that that's that's been relatively recent and it's due to the fact that there is there's a lot of cybersecurity issues currently today. And companies have to prove that they have the mechanisms in place to keep those risk premiums down.
00:12:50:19 - 00:13:15:06 Speaker 3 And I feel like, you know, a lot of companies just aren't doing a good enough job. It's a very difficult landscape to navigate. You know, when you look at some of these companies out there in the news, there's hundreds of them. You know, back in 2013 I think target. Do you guys remember the Target breach? Anybody know what happened?
00:13:15:15 - 00:13:18:06 Speaker 3 Why they were breached?
00:13:24:01 - 00:14:01:11 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a multibillion dollar company and they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into their i.t. Infrastructure, but they hired this one company from pennsylvania fazio vac services or something like that. And one of the representatives of that company had his credential stolen. Those credentials were used to tap into the target infrastructure and essentially stole, you know, millions upon millions of credit card information.
00:14:01:11 - 00:14:23:26 Speaker 3 And, and, you know, the list goes on. But, you know, target eventually, I think all told, was out like $300 million or something
like that. And I think they still had to pay for the service that they chose. So but but the point being is, you know, you can throw millions and millions of dollars into infrastructure and trying to secure your your perimeter.
00:14:24:24 - 00:14:52:00 Speaker 3 And all it takes is 11 employee or one end point. It could be an iPhone. It could be those dreaded desktops. I think someone was talking about desktop earlier and that's all it takes if that if that desktop is not properly patched and there's there's a way to get in and on you go. So you know that that's an issue a lot of companies face.
00:14:52:00 - 00:15:18:15 Speaker 3 And frankly, you know, the fact that not everyone has been breached, it's because they've they've just been lucky, I think, at this point. So, you know, my company, what we do is we we we consult on on where those gaps are on the endpoints. And, you know, my company, in fact, in North America has a has a unique perspective because we're we're based in Finland.
00:15:18:27 - 00:15:52:01 Speaker 3 So we've got 600 miles of of neighboring border with with with Russia. And so, you know, there's there's a lot there in terms of, you know, cybersecurity, just awareness, just being in the Eastern Bloc and all that. And you know, it's it's a difficult landscape to navigate, at least on the corporate side. When it comes to the consumer side, it's it's a little bit easier I think, you know, my my parents, they have their laptop sorry, iPad users.
00:15:53:00 - 00:16:18:17 Speaker 3 And I as a cybersecurity professional, I look at them and I think to myself, OK, you know, my dad turns on his his iPad. I relegate his iPad two to one app. And why one application, which is which is the the the chase of mobile app. So he does his mobile banking. I think everyone here does some sort of financial traction transactions on their phones or mobile devices.
00:16:18:24 - 00:16:41:16 Speaker 3 Right. I mean, that's just the way the world is. But you can protect yourself by putting in those those controls to prevent things from from getting out of hand. So I relegate his experience to one mobile app, which is the Chase app and one website to go out, which is this Indian scripture that he that he goes on.
00:16:41:16 - 00:17:05:17 Speaker 3 Other than that, he can't really use it all that much, but he has to come. It's come to me if he wants a new site to go to. Right. That's just how it works. And the funny thing is that's basically the way the world is going. And, you know, it's difficult to protect your firm and still maintain business efficiently.
00:17:05:18 - 00:17:45:01 Speaker 3 Right. You know, some examples are I worked with a with a company and and, you know, we couldn't do anything to the CEO's computer. The CEO could do whatever they wanted with with their computers. And it's just one of these things where unless everyone plays ball and sort of, you know, adheres to the policies, you're going to have a situation where, you know, a privileged user like a CEO may potentially get their their computers hacked because they're you know, they just are unwilling to potentially go in with the rest of the folks.
00:17:45:01 - 00:17:53:09 Speaker 3 So there's, you know, countless examples of of of that sort of stuff which we try to consult against.
00:17:54:08 - 00:18:17:12 Speaker 2 But great. Thanks, Raj. I think kind of flipping back to the consumer side and we look at risk in the last professional part of my career, I was a I taught in the Barney School of Business at the University of Hartford. And one of the courses that I was given to teach I'll never forget it was this course that had been taught for many years there.
00:18:17:12 - 00:18:40:23 Speaker 2 It was called Social Insurance. And I looked at it and I said, OK, I can teach this but I can't teach it the way the syllabus was written. So they said, We don't care. Just teach the class. As long as you kind of stay within the broad parameters of the course, you can do that. So I flipped it and I taught the course from a risk management perspective and understanding risk.
00:18:40:23 - 00:19:03:02 Speaker 2 And it was very, very interesting because I think, Suzanne, you asked the question about, you know, how young is too young or how old is old enough to start with sort of understanding risk management or understanding financial education? And now, mind you, I'm dealing with 21 year old students who are taking this class and and they talk about it.
00:19:03:02 - 00:19:21:19 Speaker 2 And they said, well, you know, I'm not too worried about retirement because I'm going to retire on my Social Security. And I said, Good luck with that because they had no idea. They thought, well, that's what you retire on, right? And I go, Well, you usually can meet maybe some of your basic human needs, like food, clothing and shelter.
00:19:21:19 - 00:19:43:08 Speaker 2 But beyond that, that's it. Talk about your lifestyle or what you're used to that you're not going to cover that. And then we get into other things in terms of talking about their expectations well, how are you going to provide for your health care? Well, I'll take Medicare because that's free. I go like, well, it's you know, it's you don't know that, but it's not free.
00:19:43:08 - 00:20:03:23 Speaker 2 And by the way, the program is full of holes with deductibles and co- insurance and so forth, and you need a supplemental program. And so but it was very interesting to me was that they as prospective consumers thought, well, there are two aspects to that. One, they didn't really understand the risks that were associate with health and your health risks.
00:20:04:07 - 00:20:20:24 Speaker 2 And they didn't understand the risks associated with making sure having the financial ability to sustain your lifestyle, which they all wanted to do when they approached that age, that what we typically used to call age 65. Yeah.
00:20:26:00 - 00:20:42:27 Speaker 2 I think it was more 90. It was just amazing to me. But we went through and we did that and we started to talk about that and they learned about it and they were like, O-M-G, what am I going to do? But they started to do it. And it was interesting because I saw a distinct difference between how the millennials were responding to that.
00:20:42:27 - 00:21:05:29 Speaker 2 Then what the Gen Z were responding to that, and that was very interesting. The Millennials were sort of they were they were angry, frankly. They were pissed off because they didn't realize they thought this was all taken care of. And now their life is like, what am I going to do? The Gen Z years where they were really upset, but they said, Well, thank God I learned this now because I've got to take I've got some time horizon to do something about it.
00:21:06:11 - 00:21:36:04 Speaker 2 But that was what the it was it was pretty, pretty broad based. And I think that's what we consume others are actually doing is they're really now as they as they age and they and they start to think about this, but they historically have started to think about this when they were in their fifties. And we all know that starting to plan your retirement when you're in your fifties is not a good idea because you have a very short runway after that, before you need to be you're going to be activating your plan.
00:21:37:05 - 00:22:05:03 Speaker 2 And this in and the other idea is understanding your health risk. It's not good to arrive at age 62 and be £40 overweight because you've got you're carrying this health risk around, which is not it's not a good risk factor for you to have or you know, maybe you've put off some of your, you know, routine maintenance or you haven't had a, you know, a well visit with the physician or something so they're the consumers, I think are waking up to risks.
00:22:05:03 - 00:22:22:17 Speaker 2 And the idea, I think, is we need to start to get people to think about risks broadly. It's just yes, it's financial risk, yes, it's health risk. But what are you going to do to take care of yourself if you need help? Are your kids going to take you in? Can you move in with your kids? If you need assistance, in living or whatever?
00:22:22:23 - 00:23:08:12 Speaker 2 There's a whole series of things. And I think that that becomes maybe perhaps my my postulate here is that that becomes the basis for maybe having conversations with consumers to understand. And by doing so, you're providing a value added to that consumer to help think, oh, I didn't understand that. Now, thank you. I understand how that works, but it really becomes a way to build that trust in that, you know, that that Avellino, how did you describe the solution with transparency and trust and and having that that relationship and that provides the basis versus saying you got to buy this, this, this, this, this whole life insurance policy because it's got a cash value feature
00:23:08:12 - 00:23:25:24 Speaker 2 that you really will appreciate in your older years. And people go like, I'm not sure I understand the difference between term life and whole life and and it and it gets into that. So that's sort of the postulate that I put out there in terms of risk management, that it
can become a platform to help consumers help them.
00:23:25:24 - 00:23:58:06 Speaker 2 And I and I think maybe that that's what they're doing when they're starting to navigate the, you know, through technology is to get information and educate themselves. They're not necessarily going to buy on the first click or with the first connection they make, but they're going to buy, I think because you've established trust when you teach them something and they go, oh, OK, I trust Evelin because she explained it to me and now I know how it works and I know there's options and that's what I'm looking for, flexibility.
00:23:58:12 - 00:24:19:24 Speaker 2 So and, you know, OK, I know it has a cost to it, but I'm really looking for some other things besides that. So that's kind of what I put out there, that risk management could potentially become a way to have a conversation with consumers and help them make informed decisions and add value to them and and help them deal with this.
00:24:20:04 - 00:24:31:22 Speaker 2 The multitude of risks that are out there in the ecosystem all, you know, compounded with VUCA for you know, volatility, uncertainty and all of that. So, yeah.
00:24:47:28 - 00:24:58:13 Speaker 1 Well, that going well. My first thanks to you on the topic absolutely.
00:25:00:27 - 00:25:14:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take on that one for rent and well the company icon system.
00:25:17:13 - 00:25:19:06 Speaker 1 Yeah so people aren't.
00:25:20:07 - 00:25:55:27 Speaker 3 I think in insurance in particular is is a very human business and it's not like going on Amazon and buying a pair of gloves. Right. There's there's an empathy factor involved, right? There's sort of a trusted advisor part that you need to play if you're making any type of advice. So it's you know, the person that's actually, you know, shopping for some type of annuity online or some type of insurance product online, you know, that they want to be an informed consumer, but they're not going to know everything.
00:25:56:09 - 00:26:20:12 Speaker 3 And the way that you can tap into that, that human spirit is by just in my mind, you know, showing that empathy and being that sort of trusted advisor. And most of the time, a parent's going to look to their child you know, or it's funny, when I first started out of college, I was selling annuities for Merrill.
00:26:20:26 - 00:26:44:13 Speaker 3 This was back in like 96. And I was that somebody termed it the baby broker, but I was the baby broker and I was what, 24? I mean, who the hell is going to listen to a 24 year old about annuities? But, you know, I didn't, I didn't probably make as many sales as I would like because I didn't have enough gray hair, but I could sell the crap out of annuities.
00:26:44:13 - 00:26:45:07 Speaker 3 Now look at all this great.
00:26:47:07 - 00:26:47:11 Speaker 1 You.
00:26:47:11 - 00:27:13:27 Speaker 3 Know, but back then. So I guess it's just making sure that you do as much as you can to be on the, on the same side of the table as far as that person that's looking to buy in insurance on the on the corporate side of things. 11 thing that I love about the innovation is, is the automation built into the user experience.
00:27:14:25 - 00:27:49:04 Speaker 3 But again, you need to have that that human factor as well. Like at a certain point, the the automatic process or the bots or whatever you guys enable to to make the process go faster. That goes to a certain point. And then you need to have that human human interaction that trusted visor that's going to kind of close the loop on on the sale, if you will, because outside of that, I'm not sure how you can you can move much product without that human interaction.
00:27:49:04 - 00:27:49:09 Speaker 3 But.
00:27:49:17 - 00:27:53:10 Speaker 2
You know, I think the human interaction is important. Barbara, you had your hand.
00:28:03:09 - 00:28:04:09 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:28:06:22 - 00:28:07:02 Speaker 1 Sure.
00:28:09:29 - 00:28:11:28 Speaker 3 Emotional health, too, like all that stuff.
00:28:12:14 - 00:28:39:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. What I'm suggesting, though, is that it sets up a system acceptance of. Sure by different.
00:28:50:05 - 00:29:12:27 Speaker 2 I think is a very good idea because I think to use the parallel, we've gotten more comfortable with health risk assessments I mean, a lot of employers want to do that because it keeps their costs down. But it really also it does help provide you as a consumer consumer protection because it makes you think about now how many drinks did I have this week and that I don't ask me that.
00:29:14:08 - 00:29:32:06 Speaker 2 Ah, you know, did I quit? Yeah, I quit smoking. So I don't worry about that. But but then getting some of those like diagnostic, you know, did you get a colonoscopy and if you had one in ten years and those questions like that are very helpful. But I think there is a sort of a financial well-being perspective on that.
00:29:32:13 - 00:29:52:26 Speaker 2 And you know, Susan, yesterday at your summit you had a breakout and the when you went to healthy, wealthy and white. And it was pretty interesting because it really and it sort of took a whole step back where the panelists were all basically saying well, we all we all used to be insurance company people, but now we're now we're in the health care field, which was very interesting.
00:29:52:26 - 00:30:20:19 Speaker 2 But they still were working for actually many insurance organizations and health space have migrated from being they don't identify as an
insurance company. They identify themselves as a health care company. I mean, if we look at you know, Aetna up the street being bought by CVS, we see Cigna buying Express Scripts. You know, now they tried if they talk about cost, quality, access, equity and population health, and they say that and that's how they fit in.
00:30:20:19 - 00:30:36:08 Speaker 2 And when I worked at Cigna, when I started, it was like, well, you know, how fast can we pay a claim? Was that a metric that was important and how fast can we get an ID card out correctly, which was always a big risk, always was a challenge. But it was sort of that was the big thing about the business.
00:30:36:08 - 00:30:47:27 Speaker 2 And now it's very different. And I think you can take that concept and flip it or like you suggested. And I think that that's a great way of having that sort of financial risk assessment. So, yes.
00:30:48:18 - 00:31:05:12 Speaker 1 But the risk categories are different. The local vendors are looking at the profit side and looking at adverse effects for retirement. That's correct.
00:31:09:01 - 00:31:43:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think addressing them is different, and I think that's why we have to have, I think the distinction there because they're different. The risks are not all alike and they move in different directions at different times simultaneously. And but then sometimes they're integrated. Like sometimes a health risk can create a financial catastrophe. I mean, who would my grandparents would never have believed that having health care costs could have put you in a bankruptcy you know, they thought it would have been a burden or they wouldn't have gotten it, but they wouldn't have thought about the economic impact today.
00:31:43:13 - 00:31:48:17 Speaker 2 That's a reality. So I think that that's important to understand. That I don't know that you think differently.
00:31:48:28 - 00:32:13:27 Speaker 3 Well, I mean, from a again, from the cybersecurity perspective, you know, we have we have a term called privileged users. Right? That's sort of like the folks that need to keep the lights on in the business, the administrators. Right. They're the they hold the keys to
the kingdom. Right. They hold access to all the PII that that you guys are trying to protect and that you guys look at to make your next sale.
00:32:13:27 - 00:33:06:24 Speaker 3 Right. And, you know, that is that's a huge risk to corporations being able to to pick the right individual to to have those keys is super important in the process. You know, the the process of picking the right individuals to manage the network I mean, that that's an inherent risk for for all companies. I feel like, you know, when it comes to cybersecurity risk, it's multifaceted, but it starts with every single employee, how they interact with with the data you know, what their intent is when you hire someone, you you have the best intentions for them to be like an equitable piece of the organization.
00:33:07:03 - 00:33:37:07 Speaker 3 But there are those disgruntled employees there. There are those employees that, you know, take a wrong turn and you know, try to instill malicious activity. And that this is this is where where my firm comes comes in in terms of being able to provide that next generation protection against malware or any type of internal, internal or external threats.
00:33:37:29 - 00:34:10:02 Speaker 3 And we do that. It's it's changed so much. But the biggest thing that a lot of cybersecurity firms out there, particularly around the insurance industry when selling to insurance companies, is the behavioral aspect of of protecting firms and against cybersecurity threats. And what I mean by that is, you know, every single employee has a certain behavior when they when they work, when they interact with company materials.
00:34:10:02 - 00:34:54:09 Speaker 3 Right. And if that employee or that workstation that they're constantly using deviates from that behavior, that sets off a behavioral anomaly, a trigger that essentially says, hey, look into this, look into this activity, this is atypical to this employee's behavior. Right? So that's kind of where cybersecurity is going. It's around the behavioral, you know, to use an overused term, I that that the data driven aspect of protecting networks because it's it's not what it was like 15 years ago where you just looked at a list of signatures or list of definitions and and that was it.
00:34:54:17 - 00:35:29:03 Speaker 3 Things have have changed. The landscape just changed so much. So, you
know, I encourage every every representative of a company that's here today to just kind of understand those those types of risks out there. I mean, how many people actually interact with with their technical teams how good a lot right. So you understand the concerns that are out there and you know, especially around the insurance industry where you guys hold so much PII, brand recognition is huge.
00:35:29:03 - 00:35:43:27 Speaker 3 Right. And all it takes is one massive breach. And, you know, you go the way Target did ten years ago. I don't know if they've fully recovered, but absolutely.
00:35:44:20 - 00:35:46:00 Speaker 2 At Yellow Haven.
00:35:46:17 - 00:35:51:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, I I don't really.
00:35:52:11 - 00:36:21:18 Speaker 3 Yeah. And the occurrence is almost daily, you know, and it's it's it's not just ransomware. I mean, everyone knows ransomware, but it's not just ransomware anymore. You know, the advent of cryptocurrency is causing more and more attempted attacks because it's just easier to send over some Bitcoin. I've always said, you know, all it takes to actually have a successful breach is is time and energy, right?
00:36:21:24 - 00:36:36:04 Speaker 3 So what what we've tried to do is prevent that, you know, lessen the time of an attack lessen the, the, the effort of, of an attack. And then maybe you won't it won't occur as much.
00:36:36:12 - 00:36:40:28 Speaker 1 Your strategy would be the monitoring costs is variable. Yeah.
00:36:43:25 - 00:37:15:19 Speaker 3 The monitoring of of the of the networks. Yeah. I mean, there's so there's two ways and this is another direction for, for anyone who is really interested in where cybersecurity the industry is going, it's going in the direction of, OK, you, you have an internal team that manages cybersecurity risk through a toolset that you've purchased. Right. But then that team needs an out they need a set of trusted advisers.
00:37:15:19 - 00:37:53:27 Speaker 3 We call them white hat, white hat hackers. Right. A channel, a phone that if they can't figure out what's going on, there is a service that sort of is their backstop. Right. So that's another thing we've built into our program WithSecure is not only do we have the front, not only do our customers have that front end application that helps monitor everything, but if in a situation a company's internal team can't figure out what's going on, they can elevate the instance to our white hat hackers in Finland.
00:37:53:27 - 00:38:02:26 Speaker 3 And that's another set of professionals that can can help out with with an impending attack. Maybe it would have helped some well.
00:38:04:16 - 00:38:10:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. That like yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:38:29:08 - 00:38:30:29 Speaker 1 You have a product. You have a program.
00:38:36:22 - 00:39:08:12 Speaker 3 That's a good question. I mean, I, I think cybersecurity firms I've been with, you know, for in the last ten years, that's never come up in terms of embedding the insurance. I think that's just another can of worms that they don't want to. Yeah, well, no, it's a great idea. But what I can say, the last firm I worked at, just the name itself, lowered risk premiums for customers because they were so well known in the industry.
00:39:08:12 - 00:39:43:28 Speaker 3 So that's, that's something. But I feel like the what's going on now with everyone working from home and hybrid hybrid workforce and, you know, folks using their own personal computers to tap into corporate networks, the wired piece to the pie. I feel like the systems need to be put into place to mitigate any risk. So if you've got if you're a company allows a personal device to access corporate networks, there has to be a secure tunnel to get into that corporate data.
00:39:43:28 - 00:40:09:26 Speaker 3 Right. These are small things that will absolutely lessen cybersecurity insurance. And the big thing I know what the educational enterprises are. They need to have some type of endpoint, detect and respond. What I was talking about the behavioral analysis that allows
companies to sort of understand if there's any, you know, mischievous, anomalous behavior going on in the network.
00:40:09:26 - 00:40:17:05 Speaker 3 Just that alone will will lower will lower the premiums. It's called it's called Next-Generation Protection.
00:40:17:26 - 00:40:30:18 Speaker 1 I'll give one yeah. You could visit just one of your clients actually. So on. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:33:16 - 00:40:58:02 Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a that's a that's a great idea. I know. We'll cover companies do that internally, but they make a mistake, so they're called development pods or development instances, right? Where you have your protection, your production data. That's where, you know, the PII, the legitimate client data goes back and forth. But then in order to test certain scenarios, they have a quarantined area.
00:40:58:02 - 00:41:22:15 Speaker 3 It's a development area. Problem is, I've seen companies take that development area, which is sort of a sandbox, and they have a leg into the production, which is a no no. Right. So like when when you apply for cybersecurity insurance, that's the type of stuff that they look at. And, you know, if if you have certain failures, then you're you may not get the insurance or the premiums are going to be super high.
00:41:22:25 - 00:41:26:03 Speaker 2 But I bet Amazon's working on that right now.
00:41:26:03 - 00:41:26:12 Speaker 3 Yeah.
00:41:26:18 - 00:41:54:27 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, they've got eight they got Hwc. I mean, it's interesting, I think about that. That's a that is a great idea, though. I think that that's the type of thing. But that's the type of thing. I just want to flip back because we had a very interesting discussion in the last panel and after that between panels, about time value of money education and how it's, you know, that understanding the compounding interest and how it works and that I'm just going to pick on one person here.
00:41:54:27 - 00:42:16:24 Speaker 2 And that's Allison. In terms of how do you feel about as a rising young professional about your preparation and or the interest or the preparation of your your colleagues in terms of understanding your long game? I mean, it's not the next five years. It's the next 50 years.
00:42:19:04 - 00:42:24:05 Speaker 2 Does that ever come across to your your thinking or is that sort of like, I'll worry about that tomorrow?
00:42:27:19 - 00:43:02:09 Speaker 2 Now, but that's great. That's right. So I think that that really shows the value of education and understanding that. And you have to start thinking about it when you're in your twenties, you don't wait until you're 58 to just start to do something about it because it's very difficult to do that.
00:43:02:16 - 00:43:07:28 Speaker 1 So yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:12:10 - 00:43:34:28 Speaker 1 Yeah. Thanks so much. And our next topic very soon I would say if we had a P and C, panel discussion on climate change, climate risk, oh, I know what this can be about, but we're talking about annuities and it's interesting we're going to do a little bit of tech change here. We have a virtual moderator or panelists coming in here.
00:43:35:15 - 00:43:40:14 Speaker 1 So so we're going to see how this all works. Thank you very much. Thank you.
00:00:00:18 - 00:00:24:26 Speaker 1 Thank you very much. Thank you. So, you know, Charlie, I'll introduce you. Charlie. Charlie Sidoti. I'll let him talk to him about ensure what he's doing in the Cambridge area, but great. Been a great partner over the last couple of years. And he called me. Maybe I know this is maybe a year ago. And you said, Hey, pal, you think there's a role for annuities in climate change?
00:00:24:26 - 00:00:27:18 Speaker 2 I said, Maybe.
00:00:28:08 - 00:00:42:24 Speaker 1 So with that, let me turn this over to you and let's guarantee you this will make you think a little differently about climate and what the power of of the price we were talking about.
00:00:46:02 - 00:00:46:08 Speaker 2 Right.
00:00:46:28 - 00:01:10:07 Speaker 3 Thank you, Paul and Laura. Thanks for the support He said maybe last year. This year he said, come to our meeting and next year climate will be one of the forces. That's our plan. So I'm going to introduce the panel and it's a panel of four. Actually, we have people online that I think will be here.
00:01:10:22 - 00:01:12:25 Speaker 4 Laura, I didn't realize virtual was an option.
00:01:15:04 - 00:01:16:09 Speaker 3 Hey, you live here, don't you?
00:01:18:28 - 00:01:47:03 Speaker 3 So I'll just quickly introduce myself. We get the online people up and running. Charlie Sidoti, I'm the executive director of INNSURE. We are a nonprofit. Our mission is to catalyze a bold and decisive response to climate change by the insurance industry. Just quickly, my background. I have 25 years in the insurance industry, followed by ten years running start ups on insurance and insurance.
00:01:47:05 - 00:02:20:05 Speaker 3
Insurance in case of injury, sorry, companies and three years running a nonprofit, which is a totally different thing. Next I'll introduce Josh, and certainly if you want to add anything, go right ahead. But many of you know Josh. Josh is an advisor. An attorney works on complicated regulatory issues, general counsel matters, and difficult issues related to fairness. And A.I. and climate challenges.
00:02:20:05 - 00:03:02:29 Speaker 3 So he's going to help us talk a little bit about the regulatory environment around these. And it looks like we have Stephanie and Evan online, so I'll introduce them. Stephanie Simon is a corporate innovation leader with deep experience in both the insurance industry and financial products she develops and manages. She has a lot of experience developing and managing startup ecosystems, and she's been working very closely with insurer to help us develop partnership opportunities and develop an ecosystem Tim really focused on this intersection of climate insurance and innovation.
00:03:03:22 - 00:03:32:15 Speaker 3 And finally, certainly last but not least, Evan Greenfield has 20 years in as an operator and an investor in ESG. He was the global head of ESG for S&P, and he spent a lot of time and effort building and overseeing ESG in impact investing platforms. So that's the team. It's a it's an honor to be with this team, and it's an honor to be here.
00:03:32:15 - 00:03:58:09 Speaker 3 And thanks again, Paul and Laura. I don't know if I can see those slides, but Stephanie, why don't you go to the next one? Okay. We introduced the team. So before we get into the panel discussion, I wanted to show at least this visual. We talk a lot about climate change. Go back to the Florida one, if you could.
00:03:58:09 - 00:04:34:06 Speaker 3 Thank you. We talk a lot about climate change and goals. The UN's sustainability goal is if we get to net carbon zero, which means the world is emitting no CO2 into the environment at all. By 2050. That will keep the the temperature increase to below 1.5 degrees centigrade by the year 2100. So that's the goal. We are not necessarily on track to meet the goal.
00:04:34:06 - 00:05:07:23 Speaker 3 We're more on track to have a 2.5 to a 4.5 increase in temperature. So those two pictures of Florida show what the coastline would look like if we have the one on the left is a two degree increase and the one on the right is a four degree increase. So although I am from the coast
and you know, the coastal people love the ESG stuff, a lot of this is built on, a lot of science goes into it.
00:05:08:12 - 00:05:33:26 Speaker 3 And so there are real risks. It's more than just a regulatory issue. And and you know, a theoretical issue. And we are getting to the point where some of these things are starting to happen. You're starting to see the wildfires and the coastal and and other issues. So I'll throw one more slide of stats at you and then we'll kind of get into the other stuff.
00:05:33:26 - 00:06:14:22 Speaker 3 And I'm going to have to go over here a little bit just to see. So some of the stats between 2010 and 20, 20 was the hottest decade in 125,000 years. So that I think is compelling. CO2 is the highest level in 2 million years. 1.2 trillion tons of sea ice melts annually and that is accelerating. And one of the reasons it's accelerating is as temperature increases since industrialization, the oceans have absorbed CO2 making the impact less.
00:06:15:10 - 00:06:48:10 Speaker 3 The amount of CO2 that the oceans are absorbing is slowing. And at some point as temperature increases the oceans will start releasing CO2, which accelerates the the temperature increase, which accelerates the release of CO2. So, again, I don't want to terrify people, but it's a serious thing. And we're going to talk about the risks related to it. But also the opportunities and specifically the opportunities for the insurance industry.
00:06:48:21 - 00:07:12:17 Speaker 3 One of the biggest ones is there's a one point $3,000,000 trillion protection gap, and it's growing. And what that is doing is pushing some of these risks onto individuals, enterprises, and the communities that represents market opportunity. And I know some of that is what we've been talking about all day. How do you sell insurance? How do you get to the customer?
00:07:12:17 - 00:07:57:23 Speaker 3 How do you meet the customer where they are? But a lot of that is a lot of the risks are related to climate risks. And just when we talk about climate risk, we really talk about three different risks. There's physical risk, which we all think about. You know, wind and weather changes drought changes, wildfires or worse, those affect physical assets like, you know, if your asset is in Miami and we hit that those numbers where the Miami is offshore, those are physical
damages to physical assets and then the other risk is transition risk.
00:07:58:10 - 00:08:22:10 Speaker 3 So if you are selling if you own chains of gas stations, and the world does actually transition to a low carbon economy and everybody is driving electric vehicles, that's a risk that an operator of a gas station faces. And there's going to be lots of lawsuits around things like reporting. What action did you take? What action didn't you take?
00:08:22:20 - 00:08:34:25 Speaker 3 So there's all sorts of liability risk risks associated with that. And if you go to the next one, I'll kick it over to Stephanie Thank you.
00:08:34:25 - 00:08:36:18 Speaker 5 Charlie, can you hear me OK?
00:08:37:13 - 00:08:37:27 Speaker 3 Yes.
00:08:38:25 - 00:09:14:28 Speaker 5 OK, so as Charlie mentioned, my background in the financial services sector and insurance, particularly in life and health and retirement. And so supplementing what you just heard about the overview of climate risk and climate change. Just talking a little bit about climate risk and retirement specifically, which Paul teed up at the beginning. So according to a 2020 McKinsey study titled Climate Risk and Response Physical Hazards and Socioeconomic Impacts, financial institutions and insurers should consider the role climate change will have on their portfolios.
00:09:15:18 - 00:09:59:25 Speaker 5 There are more studies coming out by asset managers and insurers that are identifying material risks to performance space to performance based on climate change. A report from Ernst and Young says the risks posed by stranded assets assets that unexpectedly lose value as a result of climate change are rapidly climbing. The investment industry's agenda in March, the Securities and Exchange Commission proposed rules to enhance and standardize climate related financial disclosure for US companies, including information about climate related risks that are reasonably likely to have a material impact on their business.
00:10:00:05 - 00:10:26:16 Speaker 5
You probably heard a lot about this because just in the last couple of days, this week there's been two articles of the Wall Street Journal from large companies and small businesses responding to this potential new requirement. In February, the Department of Labor, the DOL, issued a request for information pretty wide ranging about the impact of climate related financial risk on your risk covered retirement plans and individual retirement accounts.
00:10:27:05 - 00:11:03:08 Speaker 5 The DOL specifically asked whether any guaranteed lifetime income products such as annuities, can help individuals efficiently mitigate the effects of at least some climate related financial risk and if so, what mitigation measures do these products take? By 2025, climate risk reporting will be mandatory across most UK businesses. These moves are part of a global shift towards mandatory climate related financial disclosure, fueled by the need to quantify growing financial losses caused by climate volatility.
00:11:09:06 - 00:11:36:21 Speaker 3 So let's bring the panel in here. And I do just wanted to comment on one thing Stephanie said she talked about stranded assets. I think one and somebody on one of the panels, the gentleman from Flint talked about the broken promises. One thing that I think, you know, ties directly into retirement is people look at their their home values as part of their retirement balance sheet.
00:11:36:29 - 00:12:03:16 Speaker 3 And an important part and the notion that property values are going to always go up is is dramatically going to be changed by some of these climate risk issues. And it'll be a little different. It'll be different geographically so from the individual, you know, annuity buyer, they're thinking that their annuity is part of this kind of portfolio of retirement assets.
00:12:04:03 - 00:12:26:05 Speaker 3 Home valuation changes are going to be dramatically different going forward. But with that, I do want to kind of bring Evan into the conversation. Evan, can you talk about how a portfolio analysis like where it's been and where it is and where it's going from the perspective of climate risk?
00:12:27:02 - 00:12:55:01 Speaker 5 Sure. And how can carriers, how can carriers analyze begin to analyze their investment portfolios to understand these risks? Yeah. Thanks, Stephanie, for having all the questions. Oh, yeah. Good afternoon. And
I regret that I can't be in person in Hartford, actually, around 40 years ago and four days from now, there was a seminal event in Hartford, Connecticut, such that I was born at Mount Sinai Hospital, which is the city of my birth.
00:12:55:01 - 00:13:26:18 Speaker 5 And I certainly hold that generally. You know, listen, there is been a seminal focus on ESPN climate transition and sustainability transition since the financial crisis of 2008 and certainly most recently since Q1 at 2028, which was as we reflect back at the start of the pandemic, we are seeing significant flows of capital that are being integrated into ESG and sustainability related strategies for many of the reasons that Stanley and Charlie just spoke about.
00:13:26:25 - 00:13:53:21 Speaker 5 This is a tremendous risk factor across the board for all systems, economies, societies, industries, certainly in the insurance side both on PMC and life and health. But it's also a tremendous opportunity and the question is to where in an organization do we want to play? There's great innovation that's transpiring really at a moment's notice, but we see huge flows of capital that are emanating to look at climate related risk.
00:13:54:11 - 00:14:18:12 Speaker 5 We're seeing the whole different purchasing pattern from corporates that are looking to purchase from companies that are more sustainability integrated and are focused more on climate transition. Case in point yesterday Deutsche Bank announced that any supplier providing greater than $500,000 of services to the firm will have to have a certain sustainability ranking. We see that on the direct to consumer side as well, and we see that in government purchases.
00:14:18:22 - 00:14:45:02 Speaker 5 As pointed out earlier, we're seeing regulatory regimes here in the states. We saw here against their proposal last month in terms of climate exposure and climate disclosure from publicly traded companies. We're seeing a lot of activity in the European Union. See activity in Asia, certainly in China, we're even seeing pressure from rating agencies that are being put upon companies in terms of impacting their cost of capital.
00:14:45:07 - 00:14:46:06 Speaker 3 Last year, about a.
00:14:46:06 - 00:15:07:14
Speaker 5 Fourth of reading downgrades from the largest credit rating firms were attributable to material ESG factors. So there's a clear linkage to financial performance and to financial returns and as we discussed, we're seeing a great amount of innovation that's happening maybe not directly related to the insurance industry, but look at the path to electric vehicles and what Tesla has developed.
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:37:15 Speaker 5 Five years ago, there was very far and in the few in between of traditional automobile manufacturers that had a clear path to electrification. Today, everyone that I mean, that was a really rapid progression that that has been quite considerable from the insurance side. It's impacting everything from underwriting to managing assets, managing duration and liability and asset matching. This all needs to take into consideration a transition to a low carbon economy.
00:15:38:05 - 00:15:59:17 Speaker 5 You know, as I said, we're heading to a really terribly dangerous path that hasn't been seen before in human history. There will be repercussions throughout and these repercussions will affect everybody in the room, both personally and business wise. And I believe that there's an opportunity we can further discuss to capitalize on this and to see it from an economic standpoint.
00:16:01:22 - 00:16:16:24 Speaker 3 Thank you. Evan, can Evan, can you talk a little bit more how like the sophistication of the portfolio analysis has evolved from like filtering out the bad actors to a more sophisticated approach?
00:16:17:17 - 00:16:35:06 Speaker 5 Yeah, sure. Certainly. And there is a cross section and I know we're focused on climate transition, but we can look at this overall as it pertains to ESG and sustainability. But there has been an evolution. I've been involved in it for the last dozen or so years, both on the investment side, but most recently on the data analytics side.
00:16:35:14 - 00:17:01:15 Speaker 5 We're having much greater intelligence from ESG data and analytics and climate data and analytics that allows portfolio managers and analysts to integrate sustainability as a core part of their investment process, both on this election side of the equation and screening the diligence, the monitoring and engagement of the individual assets from these companies. We're seeing that both in public market portfolios and private market portfolios.
00:17:01:21 - 00:17:25:12 Speaker 5 We're seeing it across the board, whether it be indices to sophisticated alternative asset management instruments. We are at a challenging time now in that respect. You all may have heard of this aspect that there's great correlation among the credit rating firms in terms of a credit rating. You know, you go to S&P or Moody's or Fitch generally going to have a very similar rating from those three firms.
00:17:25:19 - 00:17:48:29 Speaker 5 You have a tremendous lack of correlation. Among the major issue, rating firms as it pertains to their ratings. You can have a very different rating from MSCI on the same company relative to sustainable energy or by Morningstar relative to S&P Global. That creates a lot of confusion and noise in the market. But keep this in mind. We're still at a very early part of this evolution and this trajectory to the low carbon economy.
00:17:49:18 - 00:18:17:06 Speaker 5 If we look at a similar analog to the establishment of a US job after the Great Depression, that evolved over decades. So we're still in the earlier stages, but we really need to enhance and evolve the data and analytics to allow folks like yourselves to integrate it into your models, to have some meaningful signals to it. That could give you some type of some type of advantage to understand what returns look like, where looks like opportunities, et cetera.
00:18:19:18 - 00:18:29:21 Speaker 3 Cool. Thank you. Let's move to Josh and could you give us a little bit of perspective how the regulators are kind of viewing and approaching these issues?
00:18:30:00 - 00:18:38:28 Speaker 4 Yeah, thank you. And thank you, Laura and Paul, for inviting me and putting me in this panel, even though I no longer have any real value in what I'm saying.
00:18:39:22 - 00:18:41:04 Speaker 3 Not true. Not true.
00:18:41:04 - 00:19:04:06 Speaker 4 But I will say that there's enough of a tail. On my previous job, I was a deputy commissioner at the Connecticut Insurance Revenue that
just ended in May. And I do think that, you know, I think from the regulators perspective, there's a lot of things going on. There's it's really twofold. It's it it starts with with what the companies are investing in.
00:19:04:06 - 00:19:38:18 Speaker 4 And there always is this little dialog whether or not regulators should get in the mix and say, well, certain class of investments should not include things that might negatively impact the climate and the direction that the regulators really trend, although there always is conversation is as long as the CEO and the and the financial chief financial regulator in the in the jurisdiction agree that it meets a class of investment, they don't really care what that investment is in.
00:19:39:00 - 00:20:11:12 Speaker 4 And I don't see that changing. It's not the regulators job to determine to determine what a company should be invested. And they the job of the regulator, as Barbara kind of mentioned, is to protect consumers and protecting consumers at its core is to make sure a company is solvent, because if a company can't pay out its claim, which is the ultimate sort of consumer responsibility, company responsibility for the consumer, then what what good is the company and then what good is a regulator?
00:20:11:12 - 00:20:41:19 Speaker 4 So the job of the regulator is really to make sure an investment opportunity meets the standard required by the statutes and regs in that jurisdiction, not to pick each individual different type of investment. However, it is also the job of the regulator to understand the solvency of a company. And if a company is heavily invested in things that might be impacted in a massive way by climate, it's important that the regulator knows that.
00:20:41:25 - 00:21:14:26 Speaker 4 So that's why in April of this year of 2022, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners transitioned their their reporting. It's not CFD. They have their own reporting but they transition into something that is very similar to CFD. So it allows for carriers to say, OK, if I did TCF FD, which a lot of large carriers are required to, then I am now compliant with what the what the states are asking us to file.
00:21:15:04 - 00:21:40:24 Speaker 4 And there are some discrepancies. So there is additional language that
needs to be filed by the carriers. But, but, but on its face, it really outlines the risk exposure and it lets the regulator understand the risk exposure that a carrier has in the climate space. So the disclosures are really important and CFD was just the G-7 I think adopted that in 20, 21.
00:21:40:29 - 00:22:03:04 Speaker 4 But I think it's slowly coming across most of Europe and I know it's in a lot of a lot of European countries now. So I think that disclosures is the only way to go at this point for regulators so that they can understand the risk and although not all states are on board, I think it's only 14 states that agreed to participate in this disclosure requirement.
00:22:03:04 - 00:22:19:25 Speaker 4 That's the floor of the 56 jurisdiction regulatory scheme that exists in the United States. However, those 14 states happen to represent 80% of the marketplace. So it's it's disproportionately impacting the majority of the insurance market.
00:22:21:09 - 00:22:34:06 Speaker 3 Awesome. Thank you. I think we're going to transition now to the the next slide and start talking about some of the opportunities. And Stephanie, are you going to run this one? Is that right?
00:22:34:09 - 00:23:01:16 Speaker 5 Sure. What are some potential novel ideas in the annuity space where we could be thinking about climate focused annuities? Some novel ideas for annuities that could meet or preserve retirement savings, as well as address climate risk. So we've given some thought to this. We'll share a few starter ideas. We would love to hear yours as well. And Josh and Evan will have an opportunity to comment and share their thoughts.
00:23:02:05 - 00:23:32:21 Speaker 5 So the first one, just from a low hanging fruit perspective, of there's been a significant increase in demand for socially responsible financial products. I know Evan spoke to that earlier. The growth of the SGA has been tremendous. So the suggestion here is to create ESG annuities with an emphasis on de-risking retirement portfolios by reducing exposure to environmental risks and potentially increasing exposure to companies with solutions to reduce carbon in the atmosphere.
00:23:33:13 - 00:23:56:21
Speaker 5 This would potentially provide customers with more investment, transparency and choice. And there's a quote here from S&P Global Insurance Talk. We strongly believe that in just a few years, most carriers in the adoption space will have an ESG offering to answer clients growing demand led by various demographic segments that see it as a must have and the focus on from there.
00:23:57:02 - 00:24:14:20 Speaker 5 One example is from BlackRock, which is on the slide here with Midland National. They have a fixed indexed ESG annuity product. There are a few others in the market. I didn't see a ton out there, but that's one example. And I'm going to go to the second bullet and then I'll pause. I want to talk about green annuities.
00:24:15:04 - 00:24:45:23 Speaker 5 So it's a related concept idea green annuities and ESG instead of the broad based ESG, environmental social and governance criteria, specifically offering an environmentally focused annuity product, a green annuity, where a portion or percentage of the investment is made by the insurer are in green and or blue bonds. And if you're not familiar with those terms, green bonds are financial instruments designed to support environmental and climate related projects.
00:24:45:23 - 00:25:14:07 Speaker 5 And blue bonds, which is a relatively new form, is a sustainability bond, which is the debt instrument used to support investments in marine and ocean projects. Let's just say that Stephanie's had a very large learning curve in 20, 22 climate coming from health care and financial services. So enough said, there are lots on ESG annuities or green annuities, Evan or Josh or Charlie or others.
00:25:17:03 - 00:25:49:21 Speaker 3 I'll just add, I, I think there's huge opportunity and, and you know, the discussion, the way Paul kind of set up this, the, when he introduced us was I'm not sure where the annuity piece fits, but we absolutely think there's, there's opportunity to innovate. We're not exactly sure where, but we, we want to engage with people from the industry like yourselves to say that there's opportunities on the asset side, which everyone was talking about.
00:25:50:03 - 00:26:23:06 Speaker 3 And there's opportunities, we think on the product side around helping the customers understand these risks because these are significant risk ultimately to individuals and enterprises in the communities.
And, you know, we think annuities are part of that. And we're trying to think about ways you can hedge those risk where you can create products that help the customers offset the risks that they don't really even completely understand yet.
00:26:23:12 - 00:26:32:03 Speaker 3 And much of the industry doesn't completely understand. So we want to start that dialog. We'd love to hear what you guys are thinking about.
00:26:32:23 - 00:27:02:16 Speaker 4 Well, Stephanie, if I'm jumping ahead and please tell me not to, but on the asset side, impact investing is a is a is a big deal. And I think Evan might talk a little bit more about this, too. I'm not sure. But anyway, one of the thing that's going on with all the with all the different jurisdictions they're trying to come together to figure out a way to allow for impact investing to to not be counted against risk based capital.
00:27:02:16 - 00:27:24:27 Speaker 4 So to allow carriers use their risk based capital for some of these more untraditional investment opportunities, mostly around a lot of the conversation is really around low income housing because there's long history there and it might be able to be that might be a similar class as a required class of investing for for for risk based capital standards.
00:27:25:24 - 00:27:50:14 Speaker 4 I think one of the other areas that they should be focusing on is climate. They should allow for there to be conversations on risk based capital being utilized for some climate initiatives that there's history and there's experience and and that you can show that the risk is very similar to the value, you know, to the required standard investment for risk based capital.
00:27:50:14 - 00:28:20:21 Speaker 4 So and that's an ongoing conversation that's taking place. There's so much, you know, to have an annuity, to have life insurance, to have these businesses. There's so much capital that is required to be sitting and that capital has to be invested in such a particular way and to open the capital opportunity, to open investment opportunities to capital or to investments in climate related things, I think could really, really change the way money, you know, the way some of these opportunities are funded.
00:28:24:24 - 00:28:24:27
Speaker 2 But.
00:28:25:04 - 00:28:44:03 Speaker 5 Can I just say one quick thing? You know, I think when we think of climate transition, we think of these capital intensive, scientifically risky technology, risky projects and things like carbon capture and sequestration. We need investment and we need to focus on that because we are not going to solve this challenge by just the business as usual approach.
00:28:44:11 - 00:29:07:20 Speaker 5 But those are a little more riskier assets and approaches. But there is a there is an ancillary industry building, a long, sustainable city services or climate services. Those companies that are helping with the mitigation and adaptation that are not as technology risky as that climate change, sequester, nation. So there is across the board opportunities. And one last point.
00:29:07:20 - 00:29:34:21 Speaker 5 It always baffled me years ago in the Obama administration where we said that the oil ruling as it pertains to risk plans and then we sort of rescinded and the Trump administration now sit back and I don't know why there's such political ideology on climate plan. It doesn't really care about politics the last time I checked. But but here's the deal is that if you want to be a good fiduciary, you should be certainly integrating any of these climate transition topics into your portfolio.
00:29:34:21 - 00:29:48:09 Speaker 5 So you're you're actually not fulfilling your fiduciary obligation because again, this is the most significant economic crisis and opportunity in modern economic history. If you don't integrated it, you're not fulfilling your role and responsibilities.
00:29:49:26 - 00:30:19:02 Speaker 4 Yeah. Evan, that's a good point. And I'd just like to add on a little bit to that when when resiliency is such a huge a huge piece of this. And, you know, I think insurers working on a huge resiliency and I think that there might be some interesting opportunities where you can capitalize on some sitting cash sitting RBC Capital to to then to to invest in some resiliency things, which we know resiliency isn't really a risk.
00:30:19:08 - 00:30:22:27
Speaker 4 It's just a way of doing things different and better for it.
00:30:24:12 - 00:30:54:25 Speaker 3 Absolutely. I I'll just add to that, too, the a lot of the a lot of these opportunities are very good investments. And there's also second and third order returns. If you're investing in bonds, that's investing in resilient projects that make the community safer. A lot of these climate issues are risks on the property casualty side, but also especially to those vulnerable populations that Josh talked about.
00:30:54:25 - 00:31:27:08 Speaker 3 So they they create returns beyond the direct returns of the investment and if the insurance industry is kind of thinking beyond in not ignoring the the core investment, but also thinking about these second and third order returns of investing in the resilience of, you know, individuals, enterprises and communities, there's a huge opportunity to not just manage risk but capture opportunity.
00:31:28:02 - 00:31:56:03 Speaker 3 And I know I saw a couple of questions. Who wants to go online now?
00:32:13:21 - 00:32:14:15 Speaker 3 Wildfire.
00:32:15:10 - 00:32:20:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, a lot of areas that are far inland.
00:32:20:22 - 00:33:09:17 Speaker 3 They like it. I mean, it is dramatically it is different regions to region. And I think we have some slides at the end about a few startups you know, people are building models now to get very sophisticated to measure the differences on how well like home values vary in, you know, five, ten, 25 years down to specifically specific parcels and then roll that up at a portfolio level like the notion that physical assets, buildings are going to increase in value the way they historically have is just wrong.
00:33:09:17 - 00:33:39:09 Speaker 3 And there's there's real political challenges to the state of California started offering people to buy their assets and say you know we want to migrate people out of Pacifica because one or two
homes are falling into the ocean now and it's only going to get worse and we need to do kind of a planned migration and people fight it because they were saying, well, no, you can't say that our homes are going to fall into the ocean because that will affect our asset values.
00:33:39:18 - 00:34:15:28 Speaker 3 But it's like this crazy argument that says, but your asset values will ultimately go to zero because we know and it's already starting homes are falling into the ocean. So I think part of it is the technology which people are working on. How do you measure those regional differences? But also part of it is the mental. How do we grab you know, wrap our head around that, whether it's kind of the oil industry assets and coal assets are going to go to zero or my house in Miami or Key West is going to go to zero.
00:34:16:06 - 00:34:33:00 Speaker 3 So there's a number of challenges there around that. And we're grappling with it. Like Evan said, where people are, money's going into it, attention's going into it, people are starting to report on it. So there's a lot of work to be done, but we're running out of time.
00:34:33:08 - 00:34:55:01 Speaker 4 Well, I, unlike Charlie, do not have a house in Key West, but I will say that in Guilford, Connecticut. So if we're talking regionally, it gets even more local. And Guilford, Connecticut, we my there was a town plan that was passed that said up until this one road we assume in 2018 it's could be underwater and and half the town came out said oh my God this is horrible.
00:34:55:01 - 00:35:21:15 Speaker 4 How how can you do this you know our house who's going to buy my house if this plan went into effect and the plan did go into effect in 2015 and I don't think it impacted property values at all but building codes the requirements that each community has we have standard state based building codes but beyond that each community can set their own building code requirements on top of that and you have some you know Florida does a phenomenal job with the way that they require people to build houses.
00:35:22:02 - 00:35:41:16 Speaker 4 There's some amazing building code examples across the country. But Connecticut is a little bit behind on that and not that that you know, that's really not a part of this conversation. But to the point of
there being issues, you know, town by town all across the country and the issues are different and it's going to be very difficult to unwind.
00:35:43:06 - 00:36:20:29 Speaker 2 That had the aviation industry looking for a transition budget propellers in jets wouldn't that segment we have the government budget nudging. You know, putting the industry you know, on notice that my point they want to use that instrument everything not regulate the thing but not just go forward be optimistic you.
00:36:21:14 - 00:36:43:03 Speaker 4 Know that's that's a really good point and I think it's the consumer's job to participate in that nudge. I think consumers are starting to demand demand that they know like one of the biggest negative feedbacks we received from large carriers on the not we wrote the Connecticut insurance where received from large carriers on the on the reporting is well we don't want there to be naming and shaming.
00:36:43:03 - 00:37:17:09 Speaker 4 We don't want the consumers to come out and say, well, hold on a second. We see that this one large company is only invested in oil and this other company is invested in, you know, all these great funds that that help society be a better place. You know, why is that? And so carriers that will be a part of this disclosure is I don't think the goal of disclosure is to name and shame, but I do think it will end up nudging carriers because they could be less likely to want to disclose that, you know, they have some possibly nefarious investments.
00:37:18:08 - 00:38:02:17 Speaker 3 And I think the flip side of the name and shame, which I love the term is, is there's opportunity. And I think about my kids who are like 20 years old, they don't think much about annuities. Which is probably because I didn't educate them at 12 about compound interest. But but I think there's an opportunity to wrap annuities in these kind of ESG and green that you know I think about my kids are they would they would that would get them in potentially interested in how does this work oh we're investing in money going to things like that which is a different kind of nudge you know it's pulling but I saw another question up
00:38:02:17 - 00:38:02:22 Speaker 3 here.
00:38:20:12 - 00:38:33:26 Speaker 2 Every year for the kind of know where.
00:38:36:00 - 00:39:01:01 Speaker 3 The scope of the change that is going to happen, whether you believe it or not it's going to happen is so big that I I hate to say it's theirs or theirs or theirs. It really is. Like all of these things need to come together and really like the next ten years. It's not we talk about 2050 net carbon zero at 2050, you can't get to net carbon zero at 2050.
00:39:01:19 - 00:39:19:09 Speaker 3 And we're literally running out of time like things need to start changing now. And, you know, everyone's talking about things are accelerating. We're not where we need to be, but it really is kind of meetings like this, getting people to think about it and start working together to figure some of these things out.
00:39:19:10 - 00:39:30:27 Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean I was speaking with a from the stable insurance form and it's already done. I mean his mind is where the world is just ending. So I think that not.
00:39:30:27 - 00:39:31:16 Speaker 3 That negative.
00:39:31:16 - 00:39:46:06 Speaker 4 Yet. I mean having I think your point is I don't, I don't think that your point is bad. I think it's good. I think that we have to be doing every component of this to make it as palatable as possible over the next 20, 30 years and get a lot of air conditioning.
00:39:46:17 - 00:39:47:21 Speaker 2 We're going to increase our power.
00:39:48:05 - 00:39:50:06 Speaker 5 I'm not sure I apologize. I can't hear.
00:39:50:06 - 00:39:52:04 Speaker 4 Everything. So I think you might be required to.
00:39:54:27 - 00:39:56:17 Speaker 2 Can I make a difference?
00:39:57:24 - 00:39:58:24 Speaker 3 Are we doing it on time?
00:39:59:13 - 00:40:21:21 Speaker 5 We have just a couple of minutes, so we have a little bit more to get through. But go ahead, Evan, and then I'll, I'll finish up this slide. Yeah. Just very quick point on that. Earlier, a question as it relates to the opportunity, the knowledge this is hard stuff in many respects. I've been involved in this movement for a dozen years and you take for granted what you know and you kind of have an approach that everybody knows what you know.
00:40:22:15 - 00:40:45:25 Speaker 5 This is emerging and it doesn't very suddenly we've seen there are trillions of dollars worth of capital market firms making commitments to net zero in the last two years. And if you discuss with most folks in an organization the concepts of ESG and sustainability and climate transition, it's not well educated. There is a lack of training. It's forms like this.
00:40:45:25 - 00:40:58:25 Speaker 5 But there needs to be much greater expertize that's disseminated throughout the whole organization, not just in the sustainability department. And to have that conversation, I think Charlie mentioned earlier, this could be a driver, right?
00:40:58:26 - 00:40:59:25 Speaker 2 Of of of.
00:41:00:25 - 00:41:27:29 Speaker 5 Getting additional customers an economic return. And we see this next generation that is very focused on these issues. But it's not only just this next generation, right? I speak to you know, generation that's a little bit older than myself and they're focused on this. Education is still missing. So we need to do a better job evangelizing for forums like this, not just the sustainability focused forums, but forums are just folks that are saying, I care a lot about this.
00:41:27:29 - 00:41:45:23 Speaker 5
What is it? How do I capitalize on it and how do I fill this out? Yeah, thank you, Ivan. And thank you for participating on the panel today. I am a corporate innovator and I I've redirected in my career to this work because I think it's so important and it's so exciting to be able to speak to you about it.
00:41:46:08 - 00:42:18:02 Speaker 5 The last idea I want to share on the innovation side, I want to bring Paul Tyler up wherever he is back there to thank him for this idea. That was really one of the prompters of this whole session. So I wanted to honor that idea around annuities to support just transition. And this is something Paul had researched. These are annuities that are not geared towards retirement it's a different use of an annuity product, but it's to provide a transition for workers away from coal and other carbon emitting energy sectors.
00:42:18:12 - 00:42:39:14 Speaker 5 So offer an annuity like financial products that would provide a steady stream, pay out for a fixed time period to ease and encourage transition to other employment there is going to be a tremendous amount of other employment if we actually do the work that we need to do. There's a lot of new sectors created, new jobs created to meet our climate goals.
00:42:39:26 - 00:43:04:06 Speaker 5 So and others can speak to that better than me. But this would be more like a public private funding partnership. The World Bank is certainly involved in these just transition programs. There's an organization called the Just Transition Fund, which focuses on this. I found AmeriLife actually is a company that's it's written on the just transitions, taking it very seriously.
00:43:04:12 - 00:43:21:12 Speaker 5 So this might be more of a play from the community investment side of a career to get involved in just transition programs and use and design these annuity instruments to help. Just one thought there. So Paul, if you want to add anything, please do. I can't see you, but I know you're there.
00:43:22:06 - 00:43:24:28 Speaker 3 This is good. And I know we're we're short on time.
00:43:24:28 - 00:43:25:11 Speaker 5 OK.
00:43:25:25 - 00:43:46:21 Speaker 3 Let me wrap it up. Can you go to the next one just quickly? We're super happy to be here to ensure if anybody is interested in these issues, we're always looking for kind of partners to work with us. There's a lot of different ways you can work with us. We think the insurance industry is all about risk and should be running towards risk.
00:43:47:01 - 00:43:58:13 Speaker 3 And figuring out how to do this. And we know it's a property casualty issue, but it's also in this side as well. And there's both opportunity here. And risk. So thank you all.
00:43:59:14 - 00:44:00:09 Speaker 5 Thank you. Wrap it.
00:44:00:09 - 00:44:00:15 Speaker 2 Up.
00:00:01:21 - 00:00:26:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, well, everyone's getting more tired, you know? You think back. I think Bobbie talked about fax machines, right? This fax machines. Right, in this business. But I think back to one of my first jobs is, you know, this is a MetLife. We decided to insure planes. The biggest thing, you know, people actually need financial plans. And we're going to hire people from American Express, put them in our put them in our organization.
00:00:26:06 - 00:00:51:21 Speaker 1 We're going to create a financial plan machine and, you know, give us $800 more to crank out this $500 plan to plug the plug the plug. Right. Oh, and that's that's it. Oh, then think about it. Think about all the issues we've heard today. Who would ever dream the financial plan would be something on paper, on a shelf, right?
00:00:52:14 - 00:01:14:22 Speaker 1 So, so, so dynamic. So I guess the first question I have for all of you and is and I'll kind of just go right down the aisle so people get to understand who you are, but also what your product and your platform is doing is, you know, what's the biggest problem you've seen in the planning industry and what does your company do to solve that?
00:01:15:13 - 00:01:16:06 Speaker 1 I'll start with you, Dave.
00:01:16:23 - 00:01:49:29 Speaker 2 Some David Mark. Yeah, from well to K Paul, I tell you, the biggest problem is the the creation of confidence in the public's mind right now. I think we've turned the corner after a 14 year bull market that has been engineered. Advisors are suffering a different climate. It's going to be having a huge impact on people. So I think platforms that are being used by advisors on an everyday basis can do things to help instill confidence to the consumer through the advisor.
00:01:50:16 - 00:02:04:24 Speaker 2 That involves the sort of the intersection of technology and content. I think we have to develop content that helps people understand important issues and builds more confidence about their futures. Well, that's where I'm focused.
00:02:05:09 - 00:02:06:11 Speaker 1 David, thank you. Alison.
00:02:06:18 - 00:02:27:09 Speaker 3 Hi, I'm Alison. So let's go with the asset map. And this question actually speaks directly to our founder story. I'll keep it quick, but our CEO and founder Adam Holt was a financial advisor for many years with AXA Equitable, and he found that his clients just weren't engaging in his process. They were becoming overwhelmed with all the charts and graphs and the long reports.
00:02:27:20 - 00:02:55:13 Speaker 3 So he created a visual platform to really get the clients involved in the process that allowing them to make better decisions understand what he was trying to explain, uncover opportunities for the advisor or the agent. And, you know, really kind of saw that as an issue, gosh, about 15 years ago and thought I really need to get these clients to understand what I'm talking to them about meetings and again, allowing them to stay involved in the process and really make great decisions along with him.
00:02:55:13 - 00:03:01:21 Speaker 3 So that's kind of the problem that we saw. And he we ran with it and we're we're working with that today.
00:03:03:06 - 00:03:03:27 Speaker 1 And Jeff.
00:03:04:27 - 00:03:24:25 Speaker 4 Yeah. Hey, everybody. Thanks Paul and Laura for having us today. So it takes a lot to put this kind of event on. So we really we really appreciate it. And I speak for all of us here so at Layfield, what we hear from from our perspective clients and our clients is the challenge with the accumulation. Right. And I think Lawrence referenced it earlier.
00:03:25:08 - 00:03:46:15 Speaker 4 You know, we do a lot about investments and in what what products do we buy and how are we talking to our clients. But when it comes down to it, you know, we've all talked about the baby boomer wave and and how many people need this kind of advice in the community as a whole is really underserved when it comes to de cumulation.
00:03:46:28 - 00:04:11:20 Speaker 4 So we do it life yield is and this is a high level statement, we help
firms and advisors maximize retirement income in a couple of ways through Social Security maximization. And then, moreover, firms leverage our engine or our API to to put a tax lens on financial planning. So what are measures that we can take to help improve outcomes through through managing portfolio?
00:04:11:20 - 00:04:20:19 Speaker 4 The household and employment can implementing certain tax strategies to to help improve after tax return and outcomes over time.
00:04:24:09 - 00:04:24:21 Speaker 1 Sheryl.
00:04:25:09 - 00:05:08:06 Speaker 3 So I'm Sheryl O'Connor, CEO of Income Conductor. And I guess I'm going to mirror everything that everybody my my fellow panelists have said. We concentrate on retirement income planning solely so we are immersed in the issues around this. And I think the question, you know, what problem do you see in this space and, you know, a problem are firms and advisors challenged with is basically there's a I think there's a serious disconnect between what individuals want today and what the financial services industry financial professionals are giving them.
00:05:09:12 - 00:05:46:24 Speaker 3 Believe it or not, a lot of the big technology planning tools that are out there in the market have focused on accumulation, save, save, save, invest. And they've really put D cumulation aside. So a good portion of them, well over 90% of them are using a strategy that was developed decades ago. So if you think about your parents generation, you know, think 30 years ago when these tools were created and these strategies were created, retirees were very different.
00:05:47:08 - 00:06:22:13 Speaker 3 They were not living as long they had pensions on top of Social Security. They didn't have such high health care expenses partly because of their shortened longevity. So now fast forward decades later and we're faced with a whole different paradigm of new retirement challenges because we've got a whole new set of individuals, right? They're living longer and they've had to self save for retirement in plans in their individual accounts.
00:06:23:14 - 00:06:54:14 Speaker 3 And they honestly, their number one concern in surveys, especially since COBRA is paying for health care expenses. And it's also the
number one reason retirees go bankrupt. So you know, we're using a strategy for a whole different generation than the generation we're working with right now on top of that, you know, they've learned to invest their savings in their own following case.
00:06:54:14 - 00:07:31:10 Speaker 3 And they've even used robots. They've been around for a while. They're comfortable with technology but most of all, they've been engaged in making decisions. So if we look at the technologies that advisors are still using, they're basically using those, you know, old, outdated strategies, but they're also back office tools. You know, they made a few adjustments to get people engaged, but at the end of the day, the advisor is doing fact finding and they're going in the back office and they're spending hours inputting data into a tool.
00:07:31:18 - 00:07:56:03 Speaker 3 And then really the extent of the client engagement is reviewing this. 50, 60 page report that's full of financial jargon that they don't understand. And then at the end of the report, they're, they're getting in a probability it's really an analysis, a probability of success. It's not a written plan. And that's what they want.
00:07:56:17 - 00:08:24:27 Speaker 1 You know, Sheryl, I was watching television, I guess over the weekend. I saw Fidelity commercial. I had, I think was your retirement confidence index. Remember what it was a green thing. I want to sort of point you mentioned probabilities. I think I have a hard time thinking probabilities. I think a lot of people do is should the is the future of these platforms more around collaboration with clients and advisors than it is with Running Monte Carlo simulations?
00:08:26:01 - 00:08:52:05 Speaker 3 Yeah. And I think if we I mean, that's what Interconnector does. So we're a B2B cloud based technology that uses a strategy that actually addresses all the risks in retirement and gives the client a written plan at the end of the day. And we've built the technology so that I mean, there's been a lot of talk about education here, financial education.
00:08:53:00 - 00:09:27:18 Speaker 3 We've built the technology so that the advisor and the client actually build their plan together. They collaborate, and as they test out assumptions, the client sees the impact on the plan of various decisions in real time. So, you know, they say, I want to travel more the first ten years, boom. One second they see the impact. Well, I
won't be able to believe as much to the kids or I'm not going to be able to even cover my discretionary or non discretionary income if I do that.
00:09:28:22 - 00:10:11:18 Speaker 3 And then that gives the advisor the opportunity to educate the client about all the components of retirement dynamically while they're building the plan. So I used to be a teacher. Education in context is a lot more meaningful an education out of context. So that's something that, you know, at the end of the day, like David mentioned, it gives the client confidence, but it also increases their understanding of the plan and they're buying in their adherence to the plan.
00:10:11:26 - 00:10:41:12 Speaker 3 And then the plan can be tracked and managed through our integration platforms. We give daily plan, performance analytics, business intelligence, send alerts to the advisor about opportunities to take risk off the table. But I think most importantly and maybe this isn't going to this this isn't the crowd, I should say this. And but most importantly, we don't lead with product clients want a plan.
00:10:41:12 - 00:11:12:07 Speaker 3 They want a strategy. They want to know they're going to be OK. And the product is the last thing they want to talk about if they want to talk about it at all. Sometimes advisors tell us, you know what clients say, I don't even need to talk about products. I have a plan. You go out and implement it but the nice thing about income conductor is it allows advisors and clients to use the products that best suit their needs and that's really, you know, along the fiduciary standards as well.
00:11:12:24 - 00:11:26:08 Speaker 3 But it's really flexible and modeling the importance of having both guaranteed as well as investment products with the goal that you're going to maximize income with minimizing risk.
00:11:26:10 - 00:11:50:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, thanks. And Jeff, we had a lot of discussion about savings. 12 years I think we all decide, right is the answer. We start and compound interest and David's around here, but you mentioned Social Security. It sounds like in your platforms, Social Security optimization is the gateway drug to retirement planning. Why? Why not start with savings? Why not start with distribution?
00:11:52:02 - 00:12:17:03
Speaker 4 You know, it's not it's not a golden rule, but everybody's going to get it right. And everybody's retiring. And, you know, I think it was someone referenced earlier that they were they did a good job with Medicare planning and then clients would come in and ask them for other advice. And that's what Social Security is. Everybody we're all going to collect it, whether it's, you know, whether it's reduced by 24% or not.
00:12:17:23 - 00:12:39:29 Speaker 4 Whatever your belief is on that, you can ask five very simple questions of a couple and provide meaningful output to them. Meaningful solutions to them in a matter of seconds using any technology. It doesn't you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be life yields, you know, so the other the other part of that is people are terribly undereducated.
00:12:39:29 - 00:12:57:28 Speaker 4 Not not just young people, older people, too. They have no idea the factors that determine their benefits. And they say they're going to do one thing like they get surveyed and they say, oh, yeah, we're going to defer into our full retirement age. And then the stats bear out that they don't all the answers. But a study out today, an investment is it doesn't match up.
00:12:58:06 - 00:13:23:03 Speaker 4 So so instantly as an advisor and agent, you can add tremendous value by showing someone options. And it's not complicated anymore. There's not many options left. Right. The old violence is spent. It's gone. That's what that all went away with the by the bipartisan budget act of 2015. So if I can show somebody hey by deferring to your full retirement age or possibly deferring to 70 we can give your household another $200,000 whatever it is.
00:13:23:03 - 00:13:45:18 Speaker 4 And across all our enterprises over the last two years we've identified $25 billion in potential income from the Social Security ministration. Just by having that dialog by having that conversation, then you can take it one step further and I identify gaps in a plan. I'll say this too. Don't wait until your clients are 62 to have this conversation when they're my age at 50 I had this conversation with my wife.
00:13:45:18 - 00:13:55:01 Speaker 4 We got our daughter going off to school and got a few weeks after she
gets back from Europe anyway. So there is no retired. Retirement looks different for me.
00:13:57:05 - 00:14:13:06 Speaker 4 But you know, my wife and I had this conversation. She said, well we defer to 70, we can get that much more. And I said, Do you listen to anything I say? And then the second part of it was, you know, she's like, Why does my income go down when you pass away? People think that they get both benefits, right?
00:14:13:06 - 00:14:36:01 Speaker 4 So there's an opportunity whether it's investments or annuities or life insurance. If you get to someone when they're 50 like I am, I can still afford insurance, right? I didn't mention a product name, and we don't put a product name in our solution. We say, Here, here's what you need. Here's the amount of insurance you need to cover this to make sure that your wife doesn't suffer any any losses spending or bridging the gap.
00:14:36:01 - 00:14:47:02 Speaker 4 Right. If someone defers to 70. I know this is really simple, guys, but if you have asked five simple questions, you show someone the value and then say, Hey, what are we going to do from 63 to 67?
00:14:48:17 - 00:15:21:19 Speaker 1 So if you talk about three things that I think are really key educational points, people that I, I just don't think they think about one was income gap planning the little things you can do with Social Security right now and then, and then what you said about kind of decoupling accumulates risk of that that those are huge mistakes people make and just an educational standpoint think.
00:15:22:03 - 00:15:50:23 Speaker 4 You know our tool is is terribly simple and we partner with wholesalers to go out with two advisors and then we do client meetings. And I'm telling you, this is the this is the gateway to retirement income. Mary Beth Franklin says it all the time. In every client meeting I did we did a series of meetings with Franklin Templeton Wholesalers and Merrill Lynch advisors in every client meeting after we showed them how to maximize Social Security, they said, OK, now what do we do I mean, it's just it's so simple.
00:15:50:23 - 00:15:56:17 Speaker 4 And then and then, you know, it's the gateway to a financial plan,
right, to go to go with these folks.
00:15:56:18 - 00:16:36:06 Speaker 1 So Alison, we're just living in such a visual world, right? Instagram, Snapchat, tick tock, a picture say pictures worth a thousand, words worth a thousand words. You have a great year. You've got this great sort of one picture snapshot of a person's financial plan. Maybe sort of describe that to people because we don't have it on screen and how if we are doing more and more planning via Zoom, via collaboration networks, how does that change how we should start to present our plans in a compelling fashion?
00:16:36:14 - 00:16:38:16 Speaker 1 Fashion people make people actually take action.
00:16:39:00 - 00:17:05:26 Speaker 3 Yeah. So we have actually the advisors using asset map over the last, let's call it decade a little bit more have actually gone remote long before we heard the word COVID or coronavirus. I mean, our CEO, not to bring him up every round here, but he he was a financial advisor for many years and he was, I think, working in the office two days a week meeting with his Florida clients from Pennsylvania, you know, regularly over, zoom over, go to webinar whatever product he was using.
00:17:06:05 - 00:17:21:25 Speaker 3 And the reason he was able to do that was he's like, you know, if these clients are in Florida half the year, I don't want to miss out on an opportunity to talk to them about something important. And we're talking in like 2009 when nobody was meeting with clients virtually, and his clients ate it up, it did not matter how old they were.
00:17:21:25 - 00:17:42:22 Speaker 3 It did not matter their net worth. They thought, Wow, this is so efficient, I don't have to drive to your office. You don't have to come to my house. And because we to your point, Paul, we have a very visual platform where you can pop up one screen and have a discussion about life insurance annuities, investments, Social Security, current income, future income, business interests.
00:17:42:22 - 00:18:04:01 Speaker 3 You can get the business partner involved, and every single person that matters to that family financially can be popped up on a screen and enabling a conversation. Because, you know, once you see something
visually about your life as a client, what do you want to do? You want to make it accurate, right? So you say, well, you know, my husband is still a golf professional, but he's recently been promoted.
00:18:04:06 - 00:18:24:24 Speaker 3 Popped that up. Add a new income amount or you know, we really do need to talk about that old 41 K and because you're collaborating with this visual online in person or on a smart board, whatever the modality is, it's the same experience for every single client or prospect. And that's really what we were after. It doesn't matter if you're across the country or across the table.
00:18:24:29 - 00:18:49:20 Speaker 3 We want every client to feel like they're getting a really, really superior meeting. Everyone's time is valuable. And because again, those items are up on a screen and the client is talking to you about them and you're giving advice, it gives the advisor permission to talk about anything that matters to that client because it's a very open conversation and the visuals just make everybody feel comfortable and you're able to kind of instead of saying, Well, I don't really get it.
00:18:49:20 - 00:19:03:13 Speaker 3 It's just a lot of words and numbers, you know, you're able to to see that visual. And I urge you all to just check out asset dash map ecom because you'll see immediately. The layout is just phenomenal for a conversation with your clients prospects.
00:19:04:03 - 00:19:13:23 Speaker 1 And David talk to us, who is the constrained investor and how does your platform make person feel less constrained?
00:19:13:26 - 00:19:37:18 Speaker 2 Sure. Let me start at the beginning. Constraint Investor is a framework that helps advisors better serve, better assess the needs of clients. Basically, what it says is you get to retirement with money, which is great, but the amount of money is not necessarily high compared to the level of income that's required. To fund, let's say, a minimally acceptable lifestyle.
00:19:38:12 - 00:19:57:24 Speaker 2 Well, who is that? That's virtually all the boomer women. That's most people. Look at the retirement savings it's a lot of people right now. It doesn't mean that you have a small balance. You could have $200,000, you could have 12 million. I was at an advisor group
meeting, which is one of my clients they told me a story about a constrained investor case, $20.6 million.
00:19:58:21 - 00:20:29:10 Speaker 2 And you're constrained because you want to live on, you know, $150,000. A month. You're constrained, right? So the point is, when you're constrained, you need a special kind of income strategy. The first priority must be to mitigate risks which can reduce or completely consume your income. This is a really big issue for our industry. You have to protect against timing risk and you have to protect against longevity risk.
00:20:30:10 - 00:20:56:16 Speaker 2 Now think about what I just said which is absolutely accurate. And over there, the $5 trillion RIAA community, which doesn't address either risk, it's a real problem for millions of people because those clients who are looking at the RIAA community to develop their wealth, grow their money and that's great and a fiduciary matter, that's fine. They get to retirement, they need to have income.
00:20:56:16 - 00:21:20:05 Speaker 2 And all of a sudden it's like you're dealing with people that don't even understand the very beginning of the basics of how to do this. So this is a problem for the industry that has to be figured out. And one of the things that I get very frustrated with is this difficult tension between the asset management community and the people who love insurance put me in that camp.
00:21:20:11 - 00:21:50:17 Speaker 2 I love insurance. And I also say, though, because I understand income planning, you must have asset management as part of the plan and you must have protection as part of a plan. But on that side of the equation, all they see is growth asset management. So I learned in 2005 because I was one of the founders of the nonprofit Retirement Income Industry Association, which was the first group that emerged in the industry that studied this issue of retirement income planning.
00:21:50:17 - 00:22:13:04 Speaker 2 And they said, we need a view across the business silos. We need to have asset management, and we need to have insurance to develop solutions that really serve the American public. So this is something I'm working on. Now, add to this one more thing women women are going to control virtually 100% of the wealth assets within six years.
00:22:15:05 - 00:22:39:27
Speaker 2 What do women do that men don't? But aside from being smarter and biologically superior, they live longer, right? So now you take what I just talked about and you make it that much more extreme. This should be the greatest annuity sales opportunity that the industry has ever seen by far. And we have a lot of work to do.
00:22:40:10 - 00:23:00:02 Speaker 2 The problem is communications based. We have to change perceptions. We have to educate advisors who don't accept annuities. We have to make women understand that they need a different kind of income plan. We have to put risk mitigation first and we have to do it quick. It's a lot to do. And, you know, all of us can play a role in making that happen.
00:23:00:02 - 00:23:01:23 Speaker 2 So I'm sorry to get on the soapbox.
00:23:02:02 - 00:23:24:18 Speaker 1 I love it. I love it. We love it. Keep the link and dialog going here. So a couple two weeks ago, a number of us were out of this Medicare conference Medicare in Las Vegas and going to Las Vegas, talking about Medicare as she goes out here. Mark was there. We'll see you. I don't know if you and she's not here, but there she is.
00:23:24:23 - 00:23:52:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. We were out there and we met with one of our friends is a VC. We just raised our debt garage. $100 million only chump change right? Chump change. His thesis is that the next big thing, insurer tech will be digitally enhanced wholesalers, agents and advisors. OK, if you I guess question number one is he thinks he thinks this is this is the next thing.
00:23:52:19 - 00:24:21:05 Speaker 1 It's not going to be people coming online doing themselves. It's going to be agents who are advisors and agencies who are more effective. Let's kind of go down the road. I know I know the answer the first question and you believe that and B if you look broadly one sort of whole class of platforms that you all represent, what's the biggest opportunity, client retention, client satisfaction agency efficiency.
00:24:21:11 - 00:24:22:28 Speaker 1 David, I'll start with you.
00:24:25:06 - 00:24:49:05 Speaker 2 Again, to go back to the issue of confidence, I think technology can only take us so far. We have to combine technology with content I'm a big believer in video content. I think we need to educate people on all of these issues that have been discussed. Video can do it. Delivering the video in Companion I would say interactive tools that can help people understand and become better educated.
00:24:49:15 - 00:24:55:04 Speaker 2 I think it's the combination of these things. It's about education, it's about motivation. And it's about building trust.
00:24:55:04 - 00:25:04:19 Speaker 1 So do you think I find I have at the end of the day, if I do what you're saying, do I have more clients? Do I have more assets under management? What's what's the.
00:25:05:14 - 00:25:14:02 Speaker 2 You have more clients and the absolute you have a greater wallet share of an existing client, because if you do it right, you have 100% wallet. You're know. Absolutely.
00:25:14:15 - 00:25:16:09 Speaker 1 How else is this a big bet to make?
00:25:16:25 - 00:25:37:10 Speaker 3 I am so lucky to talk to advisors and agents really multiple a week. And I hear a lot of the same problem and it really relates to this question. The problem is I have all of these great clients. I have 200 clients. It doesn't matter how many. It depends on the firm. I have all of these clients and a subset of them I run full financial planning for I really get in the weeds with them.
00:25:37:10 - 00:26:02:12 Speaker 3 I do deep planning. I feel like I'm not giving certain clients enough attention. They've purchased a product or two. I keep in touch with them when I can. I send them a statement every year or whatever the cadences, but I feel like I can't give them the attention they deserve or the advice that they deserve. And what, as a map allows these advisors to do is I don't want to call it speed planning, but sometimes we do get ready for a meeting in 15 minutes, really get the most relevant information.
00:26:02:19 - 00:26:19:00 Speaker 3 Let a client know whether they're a brand new client just getting started in their careers, if they're on track for things like education, planning or retirement without it taking 6 hours because you know the stats are 20, 30 40%. I put in my advanced financial planning tool which we kind of see as a back office tool a lot of times.
00:26:19:09 - 00:26:31:15 Speaker 3 But what do I do with the rest of these people who really need my advice and that's where ask them I really comes in. It's, it's the ability to take on more clients but really give them the benefit of the advice that they deserve and that's what we say.
00:26:31:24 - 00:26:35:08 Speaker 1 OK, Jeff, would you co-invest yeah.
00:26:35:08 - 00:26:54:12 Speaker 4 I'll take a different I'll take a different route here. I'll look at it from a distributor point of view because we work with we work with asset managers and insurance companies and I'm partial because I am a former wholesaler. And when I was just when I was just in the street, Hartford leaders wholesaler, that's shows you how old I am Wachovia had developed.
00:26:54:18 - 00:27:17:29 Speaker 4 And now I'm even getting older. Wachovia had developed and the name escapes me. They this awful, awful financial planning tool Zero. Remember what that was called it was what was it? So my my so my mentor, the guy who taught me how to wholesale, he said, you need to learn how to use this software because when you go out to meet your advisors, they need your help, right?
00:27:17:29 - 00:27:34:20 Speaker 4 And it's like, no, it's like knowing how to work the systems, how to how to find cash at Morgan Stanley or whatever it is. So wholesale, the most successful wholesalers that we work with are ones that embrace technology. And it's, it's just like everything else we talked about today, it's not one thing, right? It's not just the technology.
00:27:34:20 - 00:27:52:26 Speaker 4 It's not I'm not just going to be a digital wholesaler. Right. And work, work from my desk all the time. It's going to be that
combination of technology and human interaction and human advice that makes all the difference. I've got a guy out on the West Coast who talks about Social Security and he's like, talk about a soapbox he's on a soapbox.
00:27:53:08 - 00:28:10:20 Speaker 4 He he create an email template, template that Franklin Templeton is using for all the wholesalers. Here's the five questions need to answer. Let's run a case. How can I help you and he just he crushes it. So the most successful wholesalers would be the ones and distributors and asset managers that embrace technology and don't just talk about it.
00:28:11:00 - 00:28:21:07 Speaker 4 They they they they put it into practice and they provide their wholesalers with the tools they need to be successful, which at the end of the day, everybody in this room knows they'll be able to distribute more of whatever there is they're distributing.
00:28:21:24 - 00:28:29:16 Speaker 1 And Sheryl, before and after, I mean, what's where's the impact of advisors you see on your platform and others?
00:28:30:00 - 00:28:54:20 Speaker 3 Yeah. So I've worked with advisors. I started an asset management firm and built a camp. We worked with advisors all over the country. I think we kind of we're not really fair to these people because they're not technology specialists, all right? They're really good relationship people. They love what they do. They love to work with people and help them.
00:28:55:04 - 00:29:27:10 Speaker 3 They don't want to spend hours learning a tool or in, you know, a week training often, even if it's a nice place. And as technology people, we need to take that on ourselves. So you know, our goal was to bring technology sort of into the 21st century and democratize it. We have financial advisors, wholesalers, we have coaches, coaching teams, we work with LPL and Marcia McLellan.
00:29:27:10 - 00:29:53:06 Speaker 3 Their coaching teams use our software with plan participants in 2030 meetings to create and very, very minimal training. It's very powerful software, but it's extremely intuitive. So that's on us as technologists we just can't say, listen, you know wholesaler you've
been in the business 30 years using a pad and a pencil and now you have to switch over to this more complex app.
00:29:53:12 - 00:30:36:13 Speaker 3 Yeah, we need to make things simple for business people to do business successfully and the other thing we need to do is again, it's the 21st century. We've got APIs and tons of platforms that integrate data and all this data available. You know, one of our most successful enhancements recently was are our data integration with health services so we're pulling in personalized longevity projections, health care expense injection projections, including out of pocket and Social Security optimization and other strategies into the plan creation.
00:30:36:13 - 00:30:40:16 Speaker 3 Ed, where we're seeing all that data interacts.
00:30:40:25 - 00:30:41:05 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:30:41:12 - 00:30:54:10 Speaker 3 So we should, as technologists, be use consuming as much data into our application to to result in, first of all, an intuitive app, but also a very powerful and reliable app.
00:30:54:10 - 00:31:29:03 Speaker 1 Right. Well, I'm going to just pretend I'm I'm back from law school here. I'm going to call a couple of people, Denning and Michael Denning, from your perspective, I mean, you've got probably you work with every segment in the industry, in the industry, whole careers, wholesalers, agency managers, agents. You know, if you were on their advisor, if you were on one of their advisory boards, where do you think the biggest opportunity is like in the next two years to get adoption inside your value chain?
00:31:29:03 - 00:32:01:15 Speaker 1 And what are the obstacles, biggest obstacles here? I get a lot of questions language. Yeah. Tell us more. So, you know, we talked about it earlier. You got the investment community and you have the insurance community and it's like Spanish you know, it's just it's different vocabulary, you know, like I can go to an investment or go to an insurance agent and I can talk about lifetime income or mitigate or provide, you know, no losses.
00:32:01:15 - 00:32:30:21 Speaker 1 But like if I go to an investment person and I talk about an annuity, you know, their eyes glaze over and they kind of start checking their watch and looking at things. But if I start talking about mitigation or risk or separate you know, distribution risk or accumulation risk or eliminating risk multipliers or things like that, they're all ears, you know, or talk about it as an asset class.
00:32:30:24 - 00:32:52:06 Speaker 1 So you need to marry the two, you know, in terms of the asset manager, the people that are really into a um is how do you manage your book of business and be able to convert your client from accumulation when they start to take the money or what portion of it to solve for it like you're talking about.
00:32:52:17 - 00:33:18:04 Speaker 1 And so, you know, the, the carriers, so things are priced differently in different channels. And so it's, it's like how do you build things to be able to pay for the marketplace even to the point is if wrapper agnostic in terms of what you look at as insurance product as an investment product, how does it be, how is it structured and then how do you distribute it?
00:33:18:23 - 00:34:07:07 Speaker 1 And so the challenge is is territorial to me, you know, I mean, it's it's how do you get each client? So it's like on what what's your perspective now you've you've been on on the face to face, you've been on the digital, you've been on the digital and face to face advisors I mean, I think I think all the modeling great years of modeling shows that the great guarantee payments X of having a better product for a lot of engineers to just stay away from market timing for people doesn't work on all of it.
00:34:09:10 - 00:35:02:19 Speaker 1 So that duty's integrated into a platform for payments guaranteed for absence of a day. We could get that out and make it so that when somebody has to pull the trigger and create liquid assets or an illiquid assets, they have the confidence that that's true. And, you know, Pfizer's know it. Most planners don't I think the structural things about sharing role licensing, compensation structures, which are all barriers for I'll raise get problems because they trust each other that's not gonna be good.
00:35:02:19 - 00:35:49:10 Speaker 1
Objectively, prices because of the charges should be fixed. So that's another thing that you are really curious about is our industry everything. So what kind of mutual funds was there information that's available we don't ever show you the file use in real time everywhere you want to find your mutual fund, you can find it at account so I think our product, if we don't have that in the carrier silo where we have to share them with you, we process it overnight or maybe a week.
00:35:49:18 - 00:36:18:27 Speaker 1 So it gets footnoted products filled is real time, even though we say parts of it. But I still want to think about whether you can you see or or any of those types share or product values can make a product as real, as neutral. One comment. I think if there's like a tipping point out there that that product is is the way looking for you to spare your income.
00:36:19:13 - 00:36:55:18 Speaker 3 Can I second that our advisors often implement at least 50% of the client's savings in the plan to guaranteed products. Yeah and we have a pretty powerful integration platform. We also have an open architecture plug that we use. And the question always comes down to can I link, you know, my products in and our answer is well yes, no, I mean if they're on plaid or not, but also how often do they send evaluation?
00:36:55:18 - 00:37:01:06 Speaker 3 How often do they update what that, you know, annuity yeah.
00:37:01:20 - 00:37:10:12 Speaker 1 It's yeah. Where it is real time. And I that's got to me.
00:37:10:25 - 00:37:14:21 Speaker 3 And people want it, advisors want it and individuals not.
00:37:17:17 - 00:37:37:27 Speaker 1 Injecting another risk. What is it? Ecological risk you could have you saw Jeopardy's Ivan Watson Jeopardy Jeff you could have explained what they are which is the wrong way you could have also put your data for you you I actually but in the end I mean I'm quite sure there's an.
00:37:37:27 - 00:37:38:24 Speaker 3 Ambush out there.
00:37:40:22 - 00:37:51:28 Speaker 1 Yeah. But you still have a fiduciary responsibility on this that yeah. Go ahead, David.
00:37:52:16 - 00:38:00:02 Speaker 2 So something first of all, I haven't talked about any of my products and if anyone's interested, just go to well to account. Call me up. I'll give you a demo, blow your mind.
00:38:00:07 - 00:38:03:15 Speaker 1 And by the way, we will send orals, we'll send links to everybody.
00:38:03:16 - 00:38:47:14 Speaker 2 But I want to talk about this, men. So we have another problem we have to think about with women taking control of the wealth assets, how would you describe an industry where seven out of ten of its current customers reject the industry? That's what happens when a male spouse dies. The widow fires the male advisor seven out of ten times this is a problem that we all have to come together on and help the male advisor be better because the male advisor over the course of the marriage is talking about the man ignoring the women and alienating her.
00:38:48:08 - 00:39:01:19 Speaker 3 So about where the male is bringing on female people that you see operating in the industry and the female advisor there that I work with.
00:39:02:11 - 00:39:03:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, well, if.
00:39:04:21 - 00:39:08:15 Speaker 3 It's just about considering the woman participant.
00:39:09:27 - 00:39:32:18 Speaker 2 So but it's we need to bring more female advisors into the business, but it's hard to do it quickly and we need to bring minority advisors into the business and it's hard to do it quickly. So what we have to do in the meantime is coach men to be better advisors to women. So I'm very focused on that and I think that's that, that is a problem that must be addressed.
00:39:33:06 - 00:39:54:19 Speaker 2 And remember there's 86% of your advisor population is male. So it's something that's going to impact the industry negatively. If we don't fix it and we don't have a lot of time to fix it, we have to fix it over the next couple of years actually. Yeah. So to the extent that you're talking to male advisors, all the time, talk about this conversation, you know, talk about 70% of the advisors being fired.
00:39:55:06 - 00:40:08:09 Speaker 2 We're doing it. We've recently introduced the first platform for retirement income, this bill for boomer women, discretely for women, and it includes female head coaching of male advisors because they have to be better than they are today.
00:40:09:04 - 00:40:19:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, thanks so much. We'll, we'll send least of all companies you get a chance to see and learn more about the platform. Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. Thanks for listening.
00:00:05:04 - 00:00:15:11 Speaker 1 Thanks so much. At this point in time, I'd like to welcome up Doug Roth, managing partner at S.I. Ventures, to provide some insight into where he's seeing investment currently trending today.
00:00:17:20 - 00:00:18:04 Speaker 2 Thanks, Laura.
00:00:21:26 - 00:01:05:28 Speaker 2 So Connecticut Innovations, we are the strategic venture capital arm for the state of Connecticut. We've been doing this for about 30 years. Our core is to invest in generally seed stage businesses, both in the life sciences and tech We have a portfolio of about 200 companies, and I would say that we are a sort of tech and market agnostic and more focused on sort of the stage of the business and businesses that we believe can be we can be very helpful to and that businesses that are here in Connecticut or can benefit from significant operational presence here in Connecticut.
00:01:07:06 - 00:01:55:12 Speaker 2 The portfolio that I manage just to give you a view of sort of the depth and breadth of types of businesses we invest in, the portfolio I manage and companies I've invested in include things like Internet of Things, Ed tech, education technologies, mining technologies, energy technologies, advertising and marketing technologies, big data analytics and artificial intelligence and machine learning, robotics And then, of course, in sure tech and last asked to just talk a little bit about what we what we like to see when we invest and where we see some things going a little bit with respect to ensure tech.
00:01:55:12 - 00:02:31:00 Speaker 2 But I think the comments are appropriate across the board. So first and foremost, we invest in rock star teams but not rock star teams and in isolation rocks our teams that are working on sort of widely recognized nice, hard to solve problems. We love teams that have fallen in love with the problem, not the solution. As a recovering engineer, I know how easy it is to just love your product, love your tech, love your solution, and then go try and find a problem that it solves.
00:02:32:01 - 00:03:12:17 Speaker 2 Which is the reverse, I think, of what is makes for a successful business. In addition, we love companies that through the solution and technology they've developed, have created an unfair competitive
advantage and barriers to entry We love companies that are capital efficient We like companies that have developed solutions where there's a market pull rather than having to push the solution onto the customer The hardest thing, I think, is to first have to sell a company on.
00:03:12:23 - 00:03:37:01 Speaker 2 You have the you have the problem that we solve. And then after you've convinced them of that, convincing them that you have the best solution. It's a two part sale. It's really hard. So it's a lot easier if they're looking for a solution to a problem and you happen to be top of mind I particularly like businesses that the outcome isn't binary.
00:03:38:03 - 00:04:11:27 Speaker 2 You know, it's either going to be a huge success or a complete failure. Singles and doubles actually aren't all that bad and and then most importantly, and I think specific to kinetic innovations, we are looking for businesses that will benefit from and can leverage the resources that Connecticut has to offer. I think all sort of ensure tech companies have some immediate requirements.
00:04:12:05 - 00:04:48:12 Speaker 2 Capital, there's a lot of capital sources here in Connecticut and capital sources specific to insurance and insurer tech. Obviously, there's Connecticut Innovations. We've made an investment as a limited partner in HCM Ventures. And there are some insurance companies here in Hartford that either invest off the balance sheet or have more formal corporate venture arm's talent. We are probably the highest density of actuaries in the country.
00:04:49:05 - 00:05:18:21 Speaker 2 We have folks like Josh Hollander who can help with the company's talent needs and can probably speak at length about the variety of high quality talent here in Connecticut. And then finally, sort of suppliers, customers, partners, the general ecosystem. And you know what Laura and Paul are doing, what Michelle Cody is doing, what Susan Winkler are doing to create an ecosystem supportive of insured techs, hugely beneficial if you're a young company.
00:05:19:29 - 00:06:34:26 Speaker 2 And so we're looking for those kinds of companies that can really thrive in that environment. Now, please, participate I mean, it is a difficult needle to thread, but we have done extraordinarily well in highly regulated markets. We've done well in the fintech investments.
We've done the other half of our portfolio and investment activity is on the life sciences and so bringing new drugs and diagnostics through clinical trials and FDA approvals it it's not easy.
00:06:35:27 - 00:06:56:03 Speaker 2 And I think it is back to my original point, rockstar teams. So we don't know the we certainly don't know the answers and we don't think the entrepreneurial team knows the answer at the time that we invest. But the bet is on their ability to figure it out you know, and then, you know, part is the ecosystem, right?
00:06:56:03 - 00:07:17:03 Speaker 2 And being able to introduce are our companies to folks like Josh Hirschman to to get a sense of whether the regulatory environment for what you're doing. Is that going to be receptive? What kind of problems can you expect right and and get an early read that's super important. I appreciate the question. Yeah please.
00:07:18:00 - 00:08:20:21 Speaker 3 I've been just I've unique I don't know. I'm not punctual.
00:08:23:23 - 00:09:06:13 Speaker 2 And we recognize the need for alternative or competitive sources of capital, which is why we have expand in the last few years as in investing in other investment funds so I led an investment, as I mentioned, in HCM venture as a INSURE tech focused venture fund. We've we've invested in in bullish brands that focuses on consumer products, Acadian Ventures, which is the future of work, Elm Street Ventures, which is very tied with Yale and makes bioscience predominantly bioscience investors, Kane and Ventures and a handful of others.
00:09:06:13 - 00:09:28:15 Speaker 2 So we are trying to also seed other early stage and growth stage venture firms so that, you know, see, I can't and shouldn't do it alone and be the only source of funding for young companies yeah. No, I totally agree. Totally agree. The American.
00:09:30:04 - 00:09:30:26 Speaker 3 Economy on the.
00:09:30:26 - 00:10:08:13 Speaker 2 Down side and yes, I think the we are advising our portfolio companies to keep a keen eye on expenses. Typically when a young company raises
capital, we tell the entrepreneurial team, you know, you should raise four sort of 12 to 18 months. I think that's been pushed out a bit to more 18 to 24 months because we don't know when it'll officially start, how long it will last and how deep it will go.
00:10:09:20 - 00:10:38:00 Speaker 2 We are already seeing companies in the portfolio reforecast their 20, 22 plan so I think there will still be a lot of investing and in venture tech because I think the investment terms are going to get really attractive and valuations are going to get much more reasonable. I think exits are going to be the area that will be difficult over the next stretch.
00:10:38:11 - 00:11:00:24 Speaker 2 I think the IPO market, stock market's gone, IPO market's going to be tough and acquisitions might be difficult as well. But I think there will be investment opportunities. Companies need to really focus on their fundamentals. So I don't want to take too much time. I know that there are a lot of startups that want to pitch themselves, so but thank you for your time.
00:11:00:24 - 00:11:03:14 Speaker 2 And if anyone has any questions, I'll be here. Thanks.